OK so your final answer is?

BoBo · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 11:12pm

Back to a previous topic.

Scrimmage kick.

K punts to R

R muffs it and R bats the ball (while it is at rest or while it is still in motion) at R's 3 into R's endzone.

What is the call? Is this legal?

Ball goes thru the back of the endzone.

I know this is a little more basic than the original play.

SJoldguy · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 11:41pm

If R just muffs the kick into the endzone it is a touchback. The kick hasn't ended and any scrimmage kick into R endzone is a touchback.

(It is late now but I'll take a shot at the bat)

If R illegally batts the kick into the endzone, it is a post scrimmage kick foul. R's foul meets all the qualifications of PSK. The kick isn't ended so the ball into R's endzone. Therefore, still a touchback. The basic spot is the R20, so first and 10 for R on R10. If I blew this, BE KIND!

Your inclusion of "Ball being nearly at rest" suggests to me that you are considering a new force. Force is not a factor in scrimmage kicks into R's endzone. Regardless of force TOUCHBACK

[Edited by SJoldguy on Sep 14th, 2004 at 12:45 AM]

Jim S · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 12:17am

Sjoldguy you got the question of force and the status of the ball correct, but not the enforcement of the foul.
The resul is a touchback, and the basic spot is the 20. But the foul was behind the basic spot making the enforcement spot the spot of the foul (3 yard line). 1st & 10 from the 1 1/2.

jjrye22 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 03:05am

If that NF?

I don't think it is an illegal bat in NCAA as described, but maybe someone with more experience can expand on it.

James

SJoldguy · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 06:07am

Jim S

Thanks, of course you are correct. I knew it was to late last night when I answered.

Theisey · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 06:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by jjrye22
If that NF?

I don't think it is an illegal bat in NCAA as described, but maybe someone with more experience can expand on it.

James

NCAA: the bat would be legal as it wasn't in the EZ nor batted forward by team-B (or Team-R if you prefer).

Bob M. · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 16, 2004, 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jjrye22
If that NF?

I don't think it is an illegal bat in NCAA as described, but maybe someone with more experience can expand on it.

James

REPLY: Just one of the 4,238,462 differences between Fed and NCAA rules. The Fed rules regarding batting are considerably more conservative than the NCAA code.

SoGARef · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 16, 2004, 04:40pm

Jim,

Are you sure. Aren't you describing the all-but-one enforcement? If you are then R would have to be considered to be in possession of the ball. They muffed the ball and never gained possession.

Also, why if the ball was nearly at rest and it is obvious that the ball will not go into the EZ would the batting of the ball by R be a new force?

PSU213 · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 16, 2004, 08:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SoGARef
Jim,

Are you sure. Aren't you describing the all-but-one enforcement? If you are then R would have to be considered to be in possession of the ball. They muffed the ball and never gained possession.

Also, why if the ball was nearly at rest and it is obvious that the ball will not go into the EZ would the batting of the ball by R be a new force?

I really do not know what you mean by "the all-but-one enforcement." The enforcement is correct as described (and the all-but-one principle applies to almost all live-ball fouls).

Also, force is never a factor in kicks going in to R's endzone...they are always touchbacks.

Jim S · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 17, 2004, 12:06am

Quote:

Originally posted by BushRef
OK, I'm a rookie and all, so attack lightly on my question, but if R is responsible for having batted the ball out of the back of the endzone, why isn't this a safety?

There is a saying amoung Federation officials.
A kick is a kick is a kick is a kick.
The purpose of this is to remind you that until a kick ends it remains a kick and no other action makes it anything else.
A kick ends when either a player gains possession or the ball becomes dead by rule. Definition of kick in rule two.
Although R may be guilty of an illegal bat, because the kick has not ended, the force that puts the ball into the EZ is still considered to be the kick. This is true even if the ball is laying still on the ground when batted.
In other wrds the rules do not consider R to be responsible for putting the ball in the EZ during a kick.

PSU213 · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 28, 2004, 06:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by BushRef
I Found it. THis is the thread i was lookin for.

Do you care to tell us why you were looking for it? Just curious...if you don't want to tell why you were searching for it, you don't have to (as if I had some way to make you talk).

INDYREF · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 28, 2004, 09:57am

Check the Case Book on page 62. 8.5.3 Situation B. This is a kick off but the ruling will apply to a scrimmage kick as well. It states "force is not a consideration on kicks going into R's end zone. Even though the ball was kicked (in this case) the kick had not ended.