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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 01:09am
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I just finished watching the Huston/Hawaii game. 3OT followed by a nasty mid-field braw.

Coach Jones said that he thought the officials let things get out of hand during that game and thats why it happened. It brings up an important question. How do yuo draw the line between letting them play and keeping things under control? All the time fans, player and coaches talk about letting the players play the game. But I've officiated games where we let that happen, and we ended up haveing a bad situation with a couple ejections.

So what is your take on keeping it clean while letting the players play?
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 02:19am
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June Jones should invest in a good mirror...

June Jones is paid well over $800,000 per year to coach the University of Hawaii... He is the highest paid State of Hawaii employee; he makes even more than Governor Linda Lingle...

2nd major brawl involving Hawaii this season alone... 3rd major brawl in the past 2 seasons...

A few weeks ago Coach Jones was threatening to withdraw Hawaii from this bowl game because several key players were in danger of becoming academically ineligible according to WAC and NCAA regulations.

Hawaii's star defensive end, Travis Laboy, who was the WAC defensive player of the year this season as a senior, had to sit-out the game because he failed to pass 6 credit hours this semester... 12 or 15 credit hours is the average load...

Just my humble opinion, but Coach Jones needs to stop blaming everyone else and start taking personal responsibility for these team problems...

I thought the officials did a great job by the way...

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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 08:16am
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And just to add some fuel to the fire...what kind of head coach lets an assistant coach put warpaint on his face?!?!?!?!!?

To say nothing of the "mascot" (the wild eyed costumed Polynesian "warrior") the coach brought in who routinely instigates ugly confrontations with cheerleaders and mascots from other teams.
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 08:35am
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Yep I agree, cop out...Yes the officials should keep things under control to a certain extent, and I don't know about the previous brawls but have no reason to doubt what Mike is telling us. It shows a pattern of poor sportsmanship, I don't care what an official does or doesn't let happen, well coached players know when they have crossed the line into poor sportsmanship...
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 01:11pm
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"well coached players know when they have crossed the line into poor sportsmanship" says it all. We as officials are charged with the responsibility for enforcing the rules. We are not responsible for player conduct. That is the responsibility of the coaches who work with them on a daily basis. We can only penalize, we can't change the way they perform. It was stated earlier, a coach who blames officials for ugly situations is "copping out"
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 01:18pm
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Smile I kinda like the mascot!

Fili the Polynesian Warrior is kinda cool...

Its my understanding he is not affiliated with the University of Hawaii in any other capacity except as their mascot (kinda like that unemployed Hollywood actor/USC graduate that USC employs to dress-up in Trojan garb and ride his white horse around the LA Colisium). He began a few years ago as an unpaid volunteer but now I think they pay him a small fee per game to do his war dance and drum beating... (I like the way he ripples his pectoral muscles and fat for the cameras also)...

He seems like a good natured "noble-savage" type of guy (I just think the University needs to control his behavior more because he does taunt the other team and their supporters mostly out of fun but he does get carried away at times) but people outside of Hawaii need to realize that our state is not the sugar-coated tropical paradise that the Hawaii Visitor's Bureau portrays to the rest of the world. Many of the local people are struggling, most families are working hard just to make ends meet (heck, I can't even remember the last time I went to the beach), and we have the same problems as most other parts of the country.

Local people are wonderful though. They are very caring, will share their last grain of rice or spam musabi with you, and love to talk story about anything under the sun. They are also very proud of their culture and there has been a resurgence in canoe paddling, hula, and Hawaiian music.

As a result, many of us here in Hawaii have this attitude that the rest of the country views us as the tail wagging at the end of the dog. And because of this perception that local kids are somehow not as smart or not as gifted in sports breeds a confrontational attitude. Thats why a lot of teams from the mainland USA don't like to come and play here. Hawaii wants to prove that they can compete with the rest of the country.

Thats why the Board of Trustees/Regents at U.H. are paying the big bucks to June Jones because he sold them a bill of goods that he was going to take them to national prominence.

Has he succeeded? Well, if you judge national prominence by success on the football field you have mixed results... He has completed several 9 win seasons but many would say the victories have come against weaker competition in the WAC. He has won the conference title once in his 5 seasons but again many claim the WAC is a weaker conference. He does have a tendency to run-up the score against weaker teams and it is known that he is somewhat of a loner and not very well liked among his peers in the coaching profession.

If you judge prominence by sportsmanship and class he has failed miserably. The on-field brawls (seems like Hawaii is involved in at least 1 or 2 major brawls per season), the academic struggles of several star players (Timmy Chang and Travis LaBoy are the most high-profile starters that have missed at least one game this season), and the overall "blame the officials, blame the press, blame everybody else" except "his almighty" head-coach Jones brings a bad taste to my mouth.

Yes, I want to see the University of Hawaii succeed on the football field but not the way they are doing it now.
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 01:33pm
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More on Hawai'i...

Our state motto is (English translation): "The Life of the Land is preserved in Righteousness". Perhaps Coach Jones as the highest paid State employee needs to take a closer look at this motto and apply its principles in his coaching life.

The nickname of the University of Hawaii football team used to be "The Rainbow Warriors". They used to wear bright green jerseys and their white helmets had a rainbow logo on each side. The rainbow was symbol of life and brotherhood: We have a saying here that goes something like this: "No rain-No rainbows" and "From water all things find life".

When Coach Jones came in the University paid a couple of consultants a tidy sum to redesign the uniforms and the logos and even the nickname.

Now they are called simply the "Warriors". The logo is now a stylized Polynesian "H" with tapa cloth design. And their colors are now black and green (black is more intimidating to opponents or so they claim)...

I can understand the black and green color scheme for Hawai'i. Black is the color of the lava rocks that form our land. And green is the lush vegetation that grows upon the land. Its a very powerful yin-yang mythology at work in this choice of colors. "Keiki o ka aina" means "children of the land" or native sons. So what better choice of colors than the natural colors of our great State. (Perhaps green, black and blue for the ocean and the sky would have been even a better choice but that is for the future is see).
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 01:44pm
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Smile More on creation mythology...

Just a closing comment on the creation mythology I touched upon earlier:

Pele the goddess of the volcanos is our Mother Creator in Hawaiian mythology. One of her lovers was the god of the rainforest and the wild pigs that live within.

Their lovers' quarels and the resulting reconciliations of life procreation are represented by the volcanos erupting and covering the land (and the related forests, etc.) with fresh lava and even creating new land (we are the only state that is still growing in land size with each new lava flow that ends in the ocean off the coast of the Big Island of Hawai'i). Over time the forest reclaims the land with new life and then the process of yin-yang starts anew...

What lessons can we draw from this? Good productive change can result from confrontation. Good confrontation with respect for each other's views can result in a synergy of efforts with the end result being much greater than the isolated accomplishments that do not add to the betterment of the community as a whole.

Coach Jones, I sincerely hope that you humble yourself and overcome these problems. You and the team and your many supporters will all benefit.
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 05:25pm
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I never realized that some of those things about HAwaii and the University. I personally like the new uniforms.

I think my concern was the way to keep things clean and honorable in a football game. Kids try to emulate what they see in the NCAA and NFL. I also argee that the coaches should be taking care of this sort of stuff, btu many simply don't. SO how do you draw the line?

Its easy when a player takes a swat at another or starts pushing after the whistle, but what do you do when they are face to face jawing at one another? You can break it up, but unless you throw a flag, they probably going to do it again. By the time someone pushes/hits or shoves enough to get a flag, the game has already started to get ugly.

I suppose my question really come down to nipping it in the bud. WHne and where do you draw the line to keep things from degrading in a football game? How do you allow for some emotion without condoning the type of actions that will lead to violence?

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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 06:27pm
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What you talk about sloth cannot be tolerated at the NFHS level. Two players get in eachothers faced I'm going to break it up and warn them. And if they keep talking flag it.

Several times I've had this happen and all I do is go over to the kid and say "81 if I see anything again I'm going to flag you and its going to cost your team 15 yards." This will usually put an end to things. And sometimes I will even tell the coach. "Coach 28 is acting up, you better talk to him because next time its going to cost you 15 yards." or "Coach I have just given 65 his last warning and next time it will be a 15 yard USC." Most coaches don't put up with it and do not want the 15 yard penalty. I have found that saying "15 yards" kind of makes them realize what will happen.

Depending on how severe it is I will give them one warning, after that I'll start throwin the flags. You have to put an end to this early on or else it will just escalate. Sloth, all you do is give them their one warning, they want to do it again just flag them.
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Old Fri Dec 26, 2003, 09:06pm
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"Pele the goddess of the volcanos is our Mother Creator in Hawaiian mythology."

Gee, I thought Pele is considered to be the greatest soccer player who ever played the game.

Jones needed an excuse to cover his STUPID play calling at the end of regulation time. Houston with NO timeouts left. Third down for Hawai'i. RUN THE BALL for two plays. RUN OUT THE CLOCK. No, Juney Baby calls for a pass (incomplete), and a field goal (missed). You know the rest. Who would he have blamed if the Cougars won in O.T.?

Bob
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Old Mon Dec 29, 2003, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake~eyes
What you talk about sloth cannot be tolerated at the NFHS level. Two players get in eachothers faced I'm going to break it up and warn them. And if they keep talking flag it.

Several times I've had this happen and all I do is go over to the kid and say "81 if I see anything again I'm going to flag you and its going to cost your team 15 yards." This will usually put an end to things. And sometimes I will even tell the coach. "Coach 28 is acting up, you better talk to him because next time its going to cost you 15 yards." or "Coach I have just given 65 his last warning and next time it will be a 15 yard USC." Most coaches don't put up with it and do not want the 15 yard penalty. I have found that saying "15 yards" kind of makes them realize what will happen.

Depending on how severe it is I will give them one warning, after that I'll start throwin the flags. You have to put an end to this early on or else it will just escalate. Sloth, all you do is give them their one warning, they want to do it again just flag them.
My admonishment to my fellow officials before a game..Fights don't just happen, they build up.

In other words, stop the cheap stuff early including the unsportsmanlike.

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Old Mon Dec 29, 2003, 02:19pm
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Hawaii football

Mike Simonds

Thanks for all the UH info. I officiated in the OIA in the 80's and did a couple of UH non conference games a year then. If the price of success is not having class coaches like Dick Twomey (sp?) or Bob Wagner around then the cost is too high. I don't know anything about Coach Jones except is wide open offense which I like and what I read on the boards that he abuses the officials. Twomey and Wagner were intense but they stopped well short of blaming officials for their errors. I like Vili but I miss the Rainbow Warriors.
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Old Mon Dec 29, 2003, 02:46pm
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Smile Mahalo Bill!

Wow, you got to work with some great coaches who had class...

I don't want to bad-mouth June Jones but the University of Hawaii president (Evan Dobelle) needs to step in and take charge of this situation because it is extremely embarassing to the school and sets a bad example for the high school and Pop Warner players, parents, fans, etc. in the state of Hawaii.

Did you ever work with Jim Beavers? He is still going strong in the OIA (Oahu Interscholastic League for the public high schools on the island of Oahu for all you non-Hawaii board posters).

Jim is one of my favorites to work with. I just finished my 10th season in the MIL (Maui Interscholastic League) and got my first play-off assignment. Jim was the HL and I was the U. He is true professional in every sense of the word and just a great, fun all-around guy. Next year my dream is to work as his U (he is a top R also) in a play-off game.
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Old Mon Dec 29, 2003, 04:04pm
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Wink Hawaii Football

Mike Simonds,

Jim Beavers and I worked a few games together. We were both mainly referees then so there weren't a lot of opportunities to work together. Tell him hello and give him my best.

Bill Dozier
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