Goal Line Pylon

[parepat]

Thus, to simplify, would this be a correct statment?

It is a touchdown when.

The ball breaks the plane of the goal line (including the goal line extended and the pylon) before the player in possession touches out of bounds. It is irrelevent whether or not the runner is in contact in bounds when the plane is broken

[seanireland]

Originally posted by parepat
Thus, to simplify, would this be a correct statment?

It is a touchdown when.

The ball breaks the plane of the goal line (including the goal line extended and the pylon) before the player in possession touches out of bounds. It is irrelevent whether or not the runner is in contact in bounds when the plane is broken

EXACTLY!!!!!

[Forksref]

After further review (and study) , I stand corrected. Here is the citation that I believe makes it a TOUCHDOWN when the pylon (any side) is touched with the ball if the player has not touched out of bounds yet:

NF 2-25-3 (lines)

"When related to a live ball in a runner's possession (touching inbounds) while the ball is over the out-of-bounds area, the goal line includes the extension beyond the sidelines."

The pylon is located in the endzone (extended) according to this definition, thus, the plane of the goal line must have been penetrated if the pylon is touched with the ball.

8-2-1-a "It is a touchdown when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent's goal line."

I need a good relevant citation from the rule book before I agree to anything and I found it.

[PiggSkin]

Originally posted by parepat
Thus, to simplify, would this be a correct statment?

It is a touchdown when.

The ball breaks the plane of the goal line (including the goal line extended and the pylon) before the player in possession touches out of bounds. It is irrelevent whether or not the runner is in contact in bounds when the plane is broken

NO! If the runner dives at the 2, the ball crosses the sideline at the one, then lands beyond the goal line extended out of bounds, then it is NOT a touchdown... The runner only gets the benefit of the goal line extended when they are touching the ground inbounds, or the ball hits/goes over the pylon...

[Snake~eyes]

How about when a player is running out of the endzone, trips falls what ever and hits the pylon. That would be a safety. Right?

[parepat]

Piggskin:

Your position is incompatible with that of Seanireland. Can we come to a consensus on this. Now that we've talked about it and it is unclear in my mind, it is guaranteed to happen on my wing tomorrow night. What is your basis for requiring the runner to be in contact inbounds?

[Forksref]

parepat -

NF 2-25-3 (lines)

"When related to a live ball in a runner's possession (touching inbounds) while the ball is over the out-of-bounds area, the goal line includes the extension beyond the sidelines."

Diving and leaving contact with the ground inbounds would not be compatible with the above citation. Thus, you would have to mark the ball OOB where the ball broke the sideline plane. The parantheses above indicates that the runner must be touching inbounds.

[seanireland]

Originally posted by parepat
Piggskin:

Your position is incompatible with that of Seanireland. Can we come to a consensus on this. Now that we've talked about it and it is unclear in my mind, it is guaranteed to happen on my wing tomorrow night. What is your basis for requiring the runner to be in contact inbounds?

1) ball hits pylon anywhere while runner is in bounds or diving is a TD. 1.2.4

2) runner crosses goal line in bounds with ball over goal line extended is a TD. 2.25.3a

3) runner possesses ball so that the ball breaks the plane of the goal line, but he is not touching the ground (defender holds him up in the air) is a TD. 8-2-1

4) runner touches in bounds somehow, but ball is over the goal line extended is a TD. 2-25-3.

5) runner dives and lands past the goal line OOB and doesn't touch pylon. Ball is spotted where the foremost point of the ball crossed the sideline. Not a TD. 2-28-2; 2.25.3b

Now do I have it right? I am mostly the wing official, and I must get it right. Am I on the right page now? Do I now have a clue?
THANKS for all the clarifications.

[Forksref]

1-2-4 says nothing about a touchdown, diving or otherwise.

2-25-3 (there is no a or b) states in parentheses that the runner must be "touching inbounds". The dive to the pylon is not a TD if the runner's feet have left the inbounds area.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: To get the benefit of the goal line extended, the runner must touch the ground inbounds beyond the goal line plane. It provides for the situation where the runner crosses the goal line just inside the pylon but is carrying the ball out beyond the sideline. This is a TD. If the runner does not touch the ground inbounds beyond the goal line plane, then the ball itself must cross the goal line plane between the sidelines. The extension of the goal line means nothing in such a case.

[PiggSkin]

It sounds like you've got it... (I'll have to take your word for it on number three, since I don't know the exact scenario...)

[PiggSkin]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: To get the benefit of the goal line extended, the runner must touch the ground inbounds beyond the goal line plane. It provides for the situation where the runner crosses the goal line just inside the pylon but is carrying the ball out beyond the sideline. This is a TD. If the runner does not touch the ground inbounds beyond the goal line plane, then the ball itself must cross the goal line plane between the sidelines. The extension of the goal line means nothing in such a case.

Bob, why do you say that the runner must be touching inbounds beyond the goal line..? The way I read it, he just has to be touching inbounds...

Scenario:
Runner A1 is stumbling near the sideline after catching a pass... His feet are just inbounds at the one yard line, and he falls out of bounds at a 45 degree angle to the sideline, and lands so that the ball passes the goal line extended, albeit one yard outside of the pylon...

As goofy as this one sounds, I would have to rule this a touchdown... If you disagree, can you tell me why..?

Thanks...

[seanireland]

Forksref: Sorry, I used Case Book 1.2.4 and 2.25.3 a&b for citations. Perhaps, I used the wrong punctuation.

PiggSkin For example the runner jumps and lands on top of a pile. Runner is not on ground, but ball is past the goal line. TD right?

Bob M. Thanks.