Coach / WH conference

[jjb]

team B coach feels the clock is wrong and asks a wing official to remove time from the clock just as team A is about to snap. team B has no timeouts left. Wing ignores the coach . The coach moves from the box to the field bringing his appeal to the WH. After the coach / WH conference, the WH agrees team B coach has a legit complaint and adjusted the time. In this situation, should the wing blow the whistle and take an officials time out to sort the clock issue ?

[HLin NC]

Yes, if the coach formally requests the coach/referee conference, you must grant it. If the referee's ruling goes against the coach, then the R should apply a DOG penalty.

If the coach is just blathering about the clock, then no.

For the wing it falls into the whether you are being asked a question or just receiving commentary category.

[Rich]

I had a coach want me to come over after one of his players received 2 personal foul penalties. He just wanted to complain, so I told my wing to only bother me if the coach had a rules issue -- otherwise, it was his job to deal with the coach.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Yes, if the coach formally requests the coach/referee conference, you must grant it. If the referee's ruling goes against the coach, then the R should apply a DOG penalty.

If the coach is just blathering about the clock, then no.

For the wing it falls into the whether you are being asked a question or just receiving commentary category.

Agree, but when, " The coach moves from the box to the field bringing his appeal to the WH" he crossed more than 1 line, and has earned a flag.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Agree, but when, " The coach moves from the box to the field bringing his appeal to the WH" he crossed more than 1 line, and has earned a flag.

Doesn't this beg us to debate the issue of what a coach is supposed to do if the wing won't acknowledge a legitimate issue.

Building on Rich's point, one of the best referee's I ever worked as wing for told me that I basically needed to have worked out the situation and process in my head to be able to handle it on the sideline so that if I did come to him with a coach conference request, there wasn't any question about what was going on. He said I needed to know the situation and needed to be able to quickly explain to the coach the consequences of asking for a conference (call a timeout and lose it if wrong or DOG penalty if he was out of timeouts). At the end of the day he said if the coach understands a conference to complain is pointless, then he preferred I err on the side of giving the coach a conference.

ps: I agree with you that the coach shouldn't just have free reign to go across the field to talk with the referee, but really what is a coach supposed to do?

[HLin NC]

The coach moves from the box to the field bringing his appeal to the WH" he crossed more than 1 line, and has earned a flag.

And if he's not "ignored" by the wing, that probably doesn't even have to happen.

One can run this game quoting a lot of rules and being really rigid in their stance, but 9 times out of 10, that stance isn't going to win you a lot of brownie points with the PTB's at a later time. As a wing official, it really isn't your job to determine if his complaint is legitimate. If he wants a conference, he is entitled by rule to request it. You can try to help out your WH and filter out the BS but if coach is dead-set on talking to the R, have at it.

"Coach, would you like a referee conference?" is all that it would have taken. Most wings should be able do that and not take their eyes off the field. If he says "no", then you can move on in to the ignoring phase.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

And if he's not "ignored" by the wing, that probably doesn't even have to happen.

One can run this game quoting a lot of rules and being really rigid in their stance, but 9 times out of 10, that stance isn't going to win you a lot of brownie points with the PTB's at a later time. As a wing official, it really isn't your job to determine if his complaint is legitimate. If he wants a conference, he is entitled by rule to request it. You can try to help out your WH and filter out the BS but if coach is dead-set on talking to the R, have at it.

"Coach, would you like a referee conference?" is all that it would have taken. Most wings should be able do that and not take their eyes off the field. If he says "no", then you can move on in to the ignoring phase.

Is he ignoring him or is he officiating the game? There is a difference. And there is sometimes not a great time to be debating with a coach about a situation. I think we need to be careful assuming that one person's perspective is accurate.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

And if he's not "ignored" by the wing, that probably doesn't even have to happen.



One can run this game quoting a lot of rules and being really rigid in their stance, but 9 times out of 10, that stance isn't going to win you a lot of brownie points with the PTB's at a later time. As a wing official, it really isn't your job to determine if his complaint is legitimate. If he wants a conference, he is entitled by rule to request it. You can try to help out your WH and filter out the BS but if coach is dead-set on talking to the R, have at it.



"Coach, would you like a referee conference?" is all that it would have taken. Most wings should be able do that and not take their eyes off the field. If he says "no", then you can move on in to the ignoring phase.

I've been a white hat for almost 15 years now. Coaches don't have carte blanche to summon me to the sidelines unless they request a coach-referee conference for the purpose of challenging a rule error.

My wings know that.

If I choose to go to the sidelines for whatever reason, that's up to me. I've gone to let coaches vent. I've gone to provide an explanation I thought I was best positioned to give. But those scenarios were my call, not his demand...

[HLin NC]

And I've worked for a few white hats over 20 years who turn me into Henry Kissinger running shuttle diplomacy.

"I wanna talk to the white hat"
"It'll cost you a time out? Sure you wanna do that?"
"Yes, I wanna talk to him right now!"

"He wants to talk to you."
"Tell him it'll cost him a time-out."
"He knows that already. I told him."

"Coach, you know this is going to cost you a time out?"
"Fine, time out."

All this being said within virtual earshot of all three of us

[Rich]

I gotta say, I have never had a formal conference or charged a timeout.

Now it will happen on Friday.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Rich

I gotta say, I have never had a formal conference or charged a timeout. Now it will happen on Friday.

Worth remembering, A Coach can never CALL a TO, he, or a player, can REQUEST one, but the official calls (and signals for) one.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Worth remembering, A Coach can never CALL a TO, he, or a player, can REQUEST one, but the official calls (and signals for) one.

Yeah, don't forget this Rich.

[Rich]

Jeez. That canard.

[HLin NC]

Worth remembering, A Coach can never CALL a TO, he, or a player, can REQUEST one, but the official calls (and signals for) one.

Wow, thanks. My life just changed.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Worth remembering, A Coach can never CALL a TO, he, or a player, can REQUEST one, but the official calls (and signals for) one.

Wow, thanks. My life just changed.

Not nearly a "life changer", but a gentle reminder that the time on the clock, when the coach decides to ask for a TO, means nothing. The time on the clock when the covering official hears and acknowledges the coach's request, by signalling for a TO is what's relevant (with some small allowance for the signal to be received and executed).

At times there can be a noticeable difference between both observations,(Coach requesting, Official declaring) and if the covering official remembers to look at the clock when he's signalling, it can avoid a lot of needless confusion, because he'll KNOW the correct answer.