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Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 10:50am
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Just thought I'd ask if any of you have ever been involved in a coach-referee conference where the coaches challenge was upheld and an application altered. If so, can you tell us about it?
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Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 11:38am
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I don't know if this is what you are looking for but here goes. We have a 2nd and 8. Ball is spotted and our sideline is on the wide side of the field. We split a receiver out wide to our side so the wing official is close to our sideline still. Play is an off-tackle to the short side of the field. Running back goes into the line and the wing official on our side blows his whistle. Right after he whistles, the ball comes flying out of the pile, defense recovers and the WH signals first down the other way.

As you can guess, we are yelling for the inadvertant whistle. The wing official refuses to go tell the WH he blew his whistle so we start yelling and get the WH's attention. He comes over and we tell him about the IW. Wing finally admits that he blew his whistle. WH tells us since it was away from the play, no one heard it and it didn't effect the play, the call stands. We keep insisting that we should keep the ball because we had posession at the time of the whistle. Finally he calls his crew over, they go off and discuss for about 2 minutes and give us the ball back at the spot of the whistle, third down.
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Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 12:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
I don't know if this is what you are looking for but here goes. We have a 2nd and 8. Ball is spotted and our sideline is on the wide side of the field. We split a receiver out wide to our side so the wing official is close to our sideline still. Play is an off-tackle to the short side of the field. Running back goes into the line and the wing official on our side blows his whistle. Right after he whistles, the ball comes flying out of the pile, defense recovers and the WH signals first down the other way.

As you can guess, we are yelling for the inadvertant whistle. The wing official refuses to go tell the WH he blew his whistle so we start yelling and get the WH's attention. He comes over and we tell him about the IW. Wing finally admits that he blew his whistle. WH tells us since it was away from the play, no one heard it and it didn't effect the play, the call stands. We keep insisting that we should keep the ball because we had posession at the time of the whistle. Finally he calls his crew over, they go off and discuss for about 2 minutes and give us the ball back at the spot of the whistle, third down.
Did the coach ask for a coach-referee conference by calling a timeout to discuss the misapplication of the rule? When they corrected the mistake, the timeout would then become an official's timeout.
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Old Thu Dec 04, 2003, 03:12pm
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Smile Have not seen a ruling overturned yet.

Have seen about one referee-coach conference per season for the last 10 years.

But I have not yet seen a ruling overturned on the field yet.

However, my two cents: I believe that the coaches should be instructed prior to the first game on the proper procedures for requesting a coach-referee conference (calling a time-out prior to the next ball becoming live, etc.)...

Most coaches need to be reminded that a challenge cannot be made after the next down begins.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2003, 09:15am
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We actually never called for a time-out. When the wing official woulnd't go to the WH hey just started to yell out to the WH that we had an inadvertant whistle. The WH just came over to see what all the yelling was about.
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 11:35am
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High School Varsity - Visiting Coach asks for a WH conference because the chain crew is too young. This was on the third play of the game. I did the pregame conference and the crew did 6 prior games. The box/clip guy was 17 yr.'s and the chainsmen were 21 yr/'s. (I was confident they were capable). Anyway, Coach and WH have discussion at midfield, WH moves to the Home Coach and the young crew is replaced with "adults" I did not participate in the discussion. I just stayed on the sideline awaiting the results of the discussion. Do you think I erred and should have made myself part of the discussion?
Since the crew was replaced there was no timeout charged to the visiting.

BTW - Home team sweeps my side and goes out of bounds causing the line to gain post to be moved. The back post is also lifted and a 4th crew member was added without my knowledge and has the clip in his hand. So now the only true fact we have is the new spot. I firmly believed the line to gain was reached because I always mentaly note the LTG when I am on the wing. The WH gives the first down singal and the visiting coach goes ballistic. I give him a "well you asked for this crew" look but keep my mouth shut.
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 12:02pm
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That stinks. If you knew that the talk was about your chaincrew then you probaly should have been involved. And personally if the coach went ballistic I would have said somthing about how he wanted someone else to do it. lol.
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 02:32pm
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I froze of something instead of jogging out with the coach to see the WH . After the game on the drive home I began to think about me standing on the side instead of at least getting near the conference. Probably would not have made a differnece.
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Old Sun Dec 07, 2003, 07:16pm
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In my opinion any time there is a discussion between a coach and another officla someone else should be present.

I think it would have made a difference. You could have told the WH that you believe the chaincrew is capable and of age to do their job. I know if I was WH and heard that I would say the chaincrew stays. It's your chaincrew, if you think they're good enough then they're good enough.

But its not really that big of a deal.
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Old Mon Dec 08, 2003, 02:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by c it first
High School Varsity - Visiting Coach asks for a WH conference because the chain crew is too young. This was on the third play of the game. I did the pregame conference and the crew did 6 prior games. The box/clip guy was 17 yr.'s and the chainsmen were 21 yr/'s. (I was confident they were capable). Anyway, Coach and WH have discussion at midfield, WH moves to the Home Coach and the young crew is replaced with "adults" I did not participate in the discussion. I just stayed on the sideline awaiting the results of the discussion. Do you think I erred and should have made myself part of the discussion?
Since the crew was replaced there was no timeout charged to the visiting.

BTW - Home team sweeps my side and goes out of bounds causing the line to gain post to be moved. The back post is also lifted and a 4th crew member was added without my knowledge and has the clip in his hand. So now the only true fact we have is the new spot. I firmly believed the line to gain was reached because I always mentaly note the LTG when I am on the wing. The WH gives the first down singal and the visiting coach goes ballistic. I give him a "well you asked for this crew" look but keep my mouth shut.
REPLY: While the coach may have been concerned, the WH should never have granted a coach-referee conference since the composition of the chain crew is not a "misapplication of a rule." He could have waited till a natural break in the game such as a genuine TO or the end of the quarter, etc., but he never should have stopped the game to discuss this with the coach.
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Old Tue Dec 09, 2003, 07:15am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob M.
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by c it first
REPLY: While the coach may have been concerned, the WH should never have granted a coach-referee conference since the composition of the chain crew is not a "misapplication of a rule." He could have waited till a natural break in the game such as a genuine TO or the end of the quarter, etc., but he never should have stopped the game to discuss this with the coach.

Bob, I was thinking this exact same thing when I read the post.
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Old Mon Dec 15, 2003, 05:24pm
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Hey, c it first,

were you able to give instruction to the new chain crew after the original crew was replaced? If not, is that why they screwed up on the subsequent plays?

I agree with Snake Eyes. A good R knows that the chains are the HL's responsibility. If you didn't have a problem, then off we go. PLAY BALL!
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Old Tue Dec 16, 2003, 08:36am
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were you able to give instruction to the new chain crew after the original crew was replaced? If not, is that why they screwed up on the subsequent plays?

I agree with Snake Eyes. A good R knows that the chains are the HL's responsibility. If you didn't have a problem, then off we go. PLAY BALL
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I gave brief instructions about “player safety” and “not to move the chains until I tell you”. I usually chat with the crew and give examples of what they need to do. I now have a good example for future reference.

They screwed up because they were fathers watching their sons from the sideline.

Our crew that night was a mix. The WH , U & BJ always work together. The LJ and I were replacements. The WH and BJ agreed with the visiting coach about the young crew. I didn’t but I tried to make the best of it.
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