Shooting Foul? (Video)

[OKREF]

Just throwing this out there, and the time of the whistle, it doesn't look like she had started a habitual shooting motion. Just picking up a dribble doesn't necessarily constitute a shooting motion.

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just throwing this out there, and the time of the whistle, it doesn't look like she had started a habitual shooting motion. Just picking up a dribble doesn't necessarily constitute a shooting motion.

Depends on the rule set.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Depends on the rule set.

NFHS. It is a shot if the player has started their "habitual shooting motion".

Rule 4.41.3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

To me it doesn't look like she starts her shot until after the whistle.

[Stat-Man]

It looked like she carried the ball between :03 and :04

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

It looked like she carried the ball between :03 and :04

Marginal.

Originally Posted by OKREF

NFHS. It is a shot if the player has started their "habitual shooting motion".

Rule 4.41.3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

To me it doesn't look like she starts her shot until after the whistle.

Correct. The NFHS and NBA both consider the gather to be the beginning of the "motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" whereas NCAA-M specifically requires upward motion to be considered shooting.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct. The NFHS and NBA both consider the gather to be the beginning of the "motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" whereas NCAA-M specifically requires upward motion to be considered shooting.

They do? Not in any place I've seen (NFHS). First, there the NFHS doesn't even have the concept of "gather". In fact, neither does the NCAA despite how many people use that term.. I can't say about the NBA. To me, a "gather", even in NFHS, is not sufficient to determine it to be a shot. I need just a bit more for it to be a shot...some movement, once the ball is held, that normally leads to a shot. Simply picking up the ball is just not enough.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct. The NFHS and NBA both consider the gather to be the beginning of the "motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" whereas NCAA-M specifically requires upward motion to be considered shooting.

i dont know about nba and it is end of july so i havnt read a book since april. im getting old. where does nfhs say the gather counts as part of the habitual motion etc?

i do know ncaa does not include foot movement for continuous motion. thx

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i dont know about nba and it is end of july so i havnt read a book since april. im getting old. where does nfhs say the gather counts as part of the habitual motion etc?

i do know ncaa does not include foot movement for continuous motion. thx

It doesn't, shooting motion is totally the judgment of the official, it is not defined:

4-41 ART. 3

The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The word "gathering" should not ever be used. Quoting both the NFHS and NCAA rules: "The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball."

"(T)he motion which habitually precedes the releas of the ball" in our video is when the dribbler ends her dribble. It is my opinion, after watching the video, that #15 actions do not rise to the level of a foul, but was the dribbler was fouled by the next defensive player after #15. I agree with Camron that the dribbler was fouled in the act of shooting but her allowable foot movements ended before she released the ball in a FG.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i dont know about nba and it is end of july so i havnt read a book since april. im getting old. where does nfhs say the gather counts as part of the habitual motion etc?

Same place it says this:

Originally Posted by BigCat

i need to see some movement up before i give her two.

The habitual motion doesn't have to be upward motion. Many times, on a layup, it's a dip. It's whatever habitual movement precedes the shot.

Originally Posted by Adam

It's whatever habitual movement precedes the shot.

Like, for example, the "gather" which ends the dribble and typically precedes a shot?

[APG]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just throwing this out there, and the time of the whistle, it doesn't look like she had started a habitual shooting motion. Just picking up a dribble doesn't necessarily constitute a shooting motion.

NCAA-M is the only rule set where I wouldn't be giving the player shots.