Where do they come uo with these...

[Mark Padgett]

About 10 years ago, I was working a MS holiday tournament and about midway through Q4 in a fairly close game, my partner called a flagrant foul on A1. It was his 5th foul. As my partner went over towards the table to report it, Coach B came over and said that since A1's fifth foul was flagrant, not only was he out of the game but he couldn't be replaced and team A would have to finish the game with four players.

My partner was rather new and came over to me for some help. I told him there was no such rule and that Coach B was either joking or he was just plain wrong. My partner went back and asked Coach B if he was joking! Coach B said he wasn't and that he was positive it was the rule.

I heard the whole thing and went over to the table. I used one of my favorite lines with the coach and told him that we could look this up. I said I had a rule book in my bag under the scorer's table and that if he was right, I'd give him $5, but if I was right, he had to go out into the parking lot and wash my car. I then put my hand out for a shake. He just stared at me, then turned around and walked away.

I have no idea how that coach got that idea into his head. I've never heard anything like it either before or after that game.

[JRutledge]

It is not a different rulebook, they just do not know what one looks like.

Peace

Had an AAU tournament game today where one team jumped out to a 9-0 lead in the first minute after some turnovers by the losing team. The losing coach yelled at me "is handchecking allowed in this league?" I paused for a second and yelled back "that's a loaded question!"

[Pantherdreams]

Classic coach thought is the "over the back".

C: He's going over the back thats a foul.
O: Over the back is not a call. Its only a foul if he's pushing.
C: But he's got him boxed out. He can't reach over him.
O: He can if there is no contact.
O: So whats the point in my kid boxing out.
R: Sounds like a coaching decision to me, not my area of expertise.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

As my partner went over towards the table to report it, Coach B came over and said that since A1's fifth foul was flagrant, not only was he out of the game but he couldn't be replaced and team A would have to finish the game with four players.. . . I have no idea how that coach got that idea into his head. I've never heard anything like it either before or after that game.

Maybe he's also a soccer coach.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Classic coach thought is the "over the back".

C: He's going over the back thats a foul.
O: Over the back is not a call. Its only a foul if he's pushing.
C: But he's got him boxed out. He can't reach over him.
O: He can if there is no contact.
O: So whats the point in my kid boxing out.
R: Sounds like a coaching decision to me, not my area of expertise.

As a coach and parent, this is one that drives me nuts. The number of low level (below HS) refs who report "over the back" as fouls is shocking. Fro some, it's jus sloppy language where a player went through the opponent, but some are convinced that the player behind can't get the ball -- no wonder parents, players, and coaches get that idea.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Maybe he's also a soccer coach.

Soccer? That's the game for kids who can't use their hands.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Soccer? That's the game for kids who can't use their hands.

Oh?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

... refs who report "over the back" as fouls is shocking.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Over the back", reported by an official to the table on a rebounding foul, is, in reality, probably a pushing foul. Over the back is not necessarily a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. A taller player may often be able to get a rebound over a shorter player, even if the shorter player has good rebounding position. If the shorter player is displaced, then a pushing foul must be called, and this should be reported to the table as such.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Fro some, it's jus sloppy language...

This made my day.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

As a coach and parent, this is one that drives me nuts. The number of low level (below HS) refs who report "over the back" as fouls is shocking. Fro some, it's jus sloppy language where a player went through the opponent, but some are convinced that the player behind can't get the ball -- no wonder parents, players, and coaches get that idea.

Could be worse... I had an evaluator from the state observe one of my games last season. After the game he came into the locker room to talk to us, and one of his comments (to my partner) was that he missed an "over the back" foul.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

C: He's going over the back thats a foul.
O: Over the back is not a call. Its only a foul if he's pushing.
C: But he's got him boxed out. He can't reach over him.
O: He can if there is no contact.
O: So whats the point in my kid boxing out.

I've come to love it when you whistle a foul, and it's on the other team than most in the building are expecting. The preceding quote illustrates a perfect example.

During a rebound, A-1 displaces B-2, while B-2 reaches over A-1's back. Wait for it, ball goes to Team A, tweet. Bench A explodes happily, expecting the "over the back" call on B-2, only to be horribly confused when I report A-1's number.

A veteran official I respect highly uses this line: "Boxing out is screening, not displacing." Beautifully succinct.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I've come to love it when you whistle a foul, and it's on the other team than most in the building are expecting. The preceding quote illustrates a perfect example.

During a rebound, A-1 displaces B-2, while B-2 reaches over A-1's back. Wait for it, ball goes to Team A, tweet. Bench A explodes happily, expecting the "over the back" call on B-2, only to be horribly confused when I report A-1's number.

A veteran official I respect highly uses this line: "Boxing out is screening, not displacing." Beautifully succinct.

A varsity coach (losing team) came completely unglued on a 3rd qtr play in which his player, B1, waited for the shooter to return to the floor after A1's 3FGA from the corner. B1 shoved his rear end into A1, displacing/pushing him into A1's bench and onto the lap of a teammate. I am the T...watch my shooter up and down...immediately see the contact so I stay with it. And, I blow.

Coach is beside himself, saying his player was boxing out. I calmly explained that boxing out is not displacing an opponent. He looked at me incredulously. I told him we were moving on, and continued officiating the game.

Video clearly showed illegal contact of the displacement variety.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Video clearly showed illegal contact of the displacement variety.

As long as you called it a non-shooting foul, I love it.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

A varsity coach (losing team) came completely unglued on a 3rd qtr play in which his player, B1, waited for the shooter to return to the floor after A1's 3FGA from the corner. B1 shoved his rear end into A1, displacing/pushing him into A1's bench and onto the lap of a teammate. I am the T...watch my shooter up and down...immediately see the contact so I stay with it. And, I blow.

Coach is beside himself, saying his player was boxing out. I calmly explained that boxing out is not displacing an opponent. He looked at me incredulously. I told him we were moving on, and continued officiating the game.

Video clearly showed illegal contact of the displacement variety.

I find "boxing out" is something that can quickly get out of hand and lead to rough play but a lot of officials don't want to call tightly. I'm not sure if they feel like its ticky tack/game interruption or that the box outs are not impacting the play enough or maybe their standard for rough isn't the same. In any event this is definitely one of those areas of the game where if you get it early or when it happens the first time it just stops.