Game Scenario for Discussion

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

This guy, an AAU finals official, is no longer on my Christmas card list.

I wouldn't assume being an AAU finals official automatically makes the person you should respect and/or emulate. They might be a good official; might not. But merely working AAU finals doesn't mean much to me.

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

If I was going to do something with the clock, I should have brought the crew together first to talk about it before going to the table. He was right; I should have done that.

This is a very basic timing mistake and a simple correction. You can tell the crew and the coaches what you have after the timer fixes it. I have no problem with you going straight to the table. There is no reason to bring the crew together when you already have definite knowledge and have the situation well under control.

Originally Posted by jpgc99

This is a very basic timing mistake and a simple correction. You can tell the crew and the coaches what you have after the timer fixes it. I have no problem with you going straight to the table. There is no reason to bring the crew together when you already have definite knowledge and have the situation well under control.

I'd disagree here, when I am assigned U2 I need to make sure my R knows what is going on and in some cases check with him before I interact with the table.

I had situation this season with a last second shot and timeout by the other team immediately after. I looked at the clock after the shot went in and it said something like 1.8 seconds when I granted the timeout. By the time the clock operator stopped the clock it was .5. I knew what it was, but should have met with my partners first before going to the table to fix the clock. Two reasons for doing this: it shows everyone the crew getting together to get it right, and shows respect to my partners by checking with them.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'd disagree here, when I am assigned U2 I need to make sure my R knows what is going on and in some cases check with him before I interact with the table.

I had situation this season with a last second shot and timeout by the other team immediately after. I looked at the clock after the shot went in and it said something like 1.8 seconds when I granted the timeout. By the time the clock operator stopped the clock it was .5. I knew what it was, but should have met with my partners first before going to the table to fix the clock. Two reasons for doing this: it shows everyone the crew getting together to get it right, and shows respect to my partners by checking with them.

Or...it shows that you weren't sure and had to find out from your partners before fixing the clock.

How about you just blow the whistle for the timeout and loudly call out to partners "Clock needs to be at 1.8. I'll take care of it." Then go report timeout and fix the clock. You don't need permission to fix things or have an interaction with the table. Frankly, if you came to me for "permission" to handle something at the table, I would look at you like you had grown a third eye on your forehead. Go take care of it...if I can't figure out what is going on, shame on me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Or...it shows that you weren't sure and had to find out from your partners before fixing the clock.

How about you just blow the whistle for the timeout and loudly call out to partners "Clock needs to be at 1.8. I'll take care of it." Then go report timeout and fix the clock. You don't need permission to fix things or have an interaction with the table. Frankly, if you came to me for "permission" to handle something at the table, I would look at you like you had grown a third eye on your forehead. Go take care of it...if I can't figure out what is going on, shame on me.

My thoughts exactly. Any "R" or other crew member that feels disrespected over that has some problems.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Or...it shows that you weren't sure and had to find out from your partners before fixing the clock.

I'm not sure how it would show that I don't know....I doubt many fans are thinking "oh those refs are huddling together, that means they don't know what they are doing".

Originally Posted by rockyroad

How about you just blow the whistle for the timeout and loudly call out to partners "Clock needs to be at 1.8. I'll take care of it." Then go report timeout and fix the clock. You don't need permission to fix things or have an interaction with the table. Frankly, if you came to me for "permission" to handle something at the table, I would look at you like you had grown a third eye on your forehead. Go take care of it...if I can't figure out what is going on, shame on me.

Probably because the building was so loud I couldn't yell at my partners. And I didn't say I had to ask for strict permission, just check with them to see if they had the same thing and were ok with what I thought the change should be.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

My thoughts exactly. Any "R" or other crew member that feels disrespected over that has some problems.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Be an R even if you're not the R.

Certainly, but it doesn't take much effort to go the extra mile and check with your partners before you change the clock. Once you change the clock once it is hard to change it again so why not huddle with your partners and come out with one final correction? As it was the U1 on the game (I was U2) was pissed that he didn't know what was going on when I was running around taking care of things. Like it or not I'd like to keep working with the guys in my area so I'm not gonna tell him to deal with it, no matter how irrational his "feelings" are.

[BillyMac]

Anytime the clock needs to be changed, I'm talking to my partner first, to make sure that we're both on the same page; then both coaches, they deserve an explanation; and then the table crew, who will adjust the clock.

And, it's not to keep from hurting anybody's feelings, or from stepping on anybody's toes, it's because it's the right way to do it.

From my pregame: "If anything weird happens, let's get together, and talk about it".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AremRed

it said something like 1.8 seconds

There's a difference, imo, between the situation that starts with a stopped clock (as in the OP), and one with a running like (your situation).

Maybe a partner has a better / different idea of what the clock should be (but since you granted the TO, that's not too likely -- it's more so on an OOB or made basket in the last minute situation).

And, since you should have told the coaches what you were going to do so they could plan accordingly in the TO, your partners should have been aware.

Be an R even if you're not the R.

[kstiles99]

Well cross-country, you had me fooled. Now that I look back on it, my inadvertent whistle suggestion really had no business here

But yes- I've been through these situations before. Its usually me trying to be professional and following things by the book as a very young official. Once I was trying to ask the table if they switched the possession arrow only to have my R run over with a staccato whistle telling me to relax and not worry about it. Yeah- I've had more than a few of my crew chiefs embarrass me.

But,I have a MAYB game on Saturday. That'll give me a chance to try and work on my "relaxed official" alias.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

This is a very basic timing mistake and a simple correction. You can tell the crew and the coaches what you have after the timer fixes it. I have no problem with you going straight to the table. There is no reason to bring the crew together when you already have definite knowledge and have the situation well under control.

The NFHS rules book specifies that the R may correct timing errors. The U1 or U2 do not have this authority.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS rules book specifies that the R may correct timing errors. The U1 or U2 do not have this authority.

So if I am the U2 and am right there by the table and know the clock should be reset to 1.8, AND I have the audacity to turn to the table and take care of the issue, then what? Are you going to run over there and say "No, I am the R and I get to fix this. Reset the clock to 1.8!" and then run back to your position???

[Nevadaref]

Do you also check the scorebook before the game when you are the U2?
I would wonder why you are doing another official's duty.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Do you also check the scorebook before the game when you are the U2?
I would wonder why you are doing another official's duty.

Hmmm...maybe because I am right there by the table and perfectly capable of taking care of it.

See, I can answer a question. Can you?? Answer the question I asked you before...when I turn to the table and take care of it because I am right there, what are you going to do? Run over there and "officially" take care of it? Give me a dirty look and lecture me in the locker room later? What??