Geno Likes A High School Shot Clock ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

- Increases player autonomy. Makes the game more player driven someone is going to have to make a shot, play, create more times per game.
- More possessions need to end when you get a good shot vs working until you get the perfect shot for the best player. Need for kids to be better shooters and take/make more shots.
- Increased number of skilled players since more players need to play more and need to be able to create or make plays.
More players playing with greater need to train and develop more universally skilled players.

Are we really allowing Geno Auriemma to post on the Forum using Pantherdreams' user name? Does Geno really need another soapbox?

[Remington]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It probably does make the game more enjoyable to watch. But, how much is "enjoyment to watch" one of the goals of HS basketball? That's what the question comes down to (plus, money and training, of course).

Bob, you are right of course. I am simply a realist in that people won't attend games if it isn't enjoyable to watch as some point and there certainly is a money factor. The "gate" and concessions help offset the cost of having the teams, paying referees, etc... So although it isn't a goal of NFHS, it certainly is a factor to many schools in my opinion. I officiated a game many years ago that ended 6-4. The game was horrible and everyone in the stands that I knew told me how much they hated it, except for the final 2 possessions which were exciting of course. I know this is a horrible example, but I don't think that was "basketball" in my mind......

[Rob1968]

Years ago, I read a study that said that 2% of all basketball players that ever make the team in HS, will ever make a team at the college level. And that included the stars, the role players, and the kids at the other end of the bench, and all levels of NCAA b-ball.
And even with those numbers, many more of the parents, and players, will tell their peers that they think that their child or they can go on to "the next level." Unrealisitic expectations by parents, and misguided aspirations by players, too often cause some players to neglect their studies - the real reason to attend HS - and harm their future oppotunities in society.
The trickle-down from pro to NCAA to HS to JrHS and AAU levels, is a constant subject of scrutiny. And rarely are the effects of that strata considered to be a positive.
To mold the game and rules - the playing format - to aid the college game and its coaches, seems misguided. Even so, we see the tendency of the lower levels of play gradually adopting the elements of the higher levels. It's easy to chase the attitudes, by following the dollars.
Why does a college coach want the HS's to do his job? Of course, its to enhance his status at his level. I don't think that's what HS athletics should be about.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Hartford Courant, Saturday, Match 21, 2015
The Oldest Continuously Published Newspaper In The United States

TIME FOR A SHOT CLOCK ... AND OTHER REFORMS

Geno: Make H.S. Game Better

JEFF JACOBS [email protected]  

...(too much to read)

I'm trying to figure out what a shot clock has to do with building a basketball skillset.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm trying to figure out what a shot clock has to do with building a basketball skillset.

How The Shot Clock Improves Player Development - theLLaBB

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

How The Shot Clock Improves Player Development - theLLaBB

Everybody is selling something.

Lack of a shot clock below the NBA level didn't stem the basketball IQs Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bill Walton, etc. LBJ, KD, CP3 seemed to develop pretty well without shot clocks in high school.

The problem is a lack of fundamentals being coached to young ball players.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Everybody is selling something.

Lack of a shot clock below the NBA level didn't stem the basketball IQs Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bill Walton, etc. LBJ, KD, CP3 seemed to develop pretty well without shot clocks in high school.

The problem is a lack of fundamentals being coached to young ball players.

Not sure if you read the article before responding but I'm not sure what selling has to do with anything.

If you want more fundamentals being taught I would think needing more players who can make plays vs RUN plays would be a positive the shot clock could bring.

Oh and just to be difficult: KD played in Maryland where they had a shot clock.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Not sure if you read the article before responding but I'm not sure what selling has to do with anything.

If you want more fundamentals being taught I would think needing more players who can make plays vs RUN plays would be a positive the shot clock could bring.

Oh and just to be difficult: KD played in Maryland where they had a shot clock.

KD played HS basketball a lot of places...LOL

And I'm quite sure Sefu is selling us something, I just don't know what yet.

[Bad Zebra]

The bottom line is this...A shot clock is a significant fundamental change to the high school game. It would have a significant financial impact to all high schools across the country (equipment) and a significant impact on the officiating, in terms of additional rules knowledge and play-calling skills required to administer correctly.

Other than Geno (whom I'm a big fan of), I haven't heard a lot from college coaches bemoaning the fact that HS players are unprepared for the challenge of a shot clock.

I really don't see this changing any time soon.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

It's definitely an interesting debate-statistics report that the difference between scoring in states with the shot clock and states without is negligible (at least according to an analysis from MaxPreps.com sometime last year). Those who cite the need to prepare kids for college have a legit argument,but if that's the argument then shouldn't all travel ball tournaments be using the shot clock? Since after all that's where a vast majority of the recruiting occurs.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

It's definitely an interesting debate-statistics report that the difference between scoring in states with the shot clock and states without is negligible (at least according to an analysis from MaxPreps.com sometime last year). Those who cite the need to prepare kids for college have a legit argument,but if that's the argument then shouldn't all travel ball tournaments be using the shot clock? Since after all that's where a vast majority of the recruiting occurs.

Are you kidding? That would interfere with the profit margin.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

The bottom line is this...A shot clock is a significant fundamental change to the high school game. It would have a significant financial impact to all high schools across the country (equipment) and a significant impact on the officiating, in terms of additional rules knowledge and play-calling skills required to administer correctly.

Other than Geno (whom I'm a big fan of), I haven't heard a lot from college coaches bemoaning the fact that HS players are unprepared for the challenge of a shot clock.

I really don't see this changing any time soon.

My state utilizes the shot clock for HS. Girls were first and boys followed a few years later. Our local AAU organization also utilizes the shot clock down to the 7th and 8th grade levels.

I never heard of even the smallest and most rural high schools eliminating any sport programs due to the implementation costs. In addition, our first/second/third year officials do the majority of the 7th/8th grade AAU games and are handling the officiating duties quite well, including shot clock administration. Now getting table personnel to properly manage the shot clock can be a different story!

I understand the thought of adding a shot clock may seem overwhelming in many different aspects, but I'm not sure realistically if those concerns would truly pan out to have the impacts you are imagining.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

My state utilizes the shot clock for HS. Girls were first and boys followed a few years later. Our local AAU organization also utilizes the shot clock down to the 7th and 8th grade levels.

I never heard of even the smallest and most rural high schools eliminating any sport programs due to the implementation costs. In addition, our first/second/third year officials do the majority of the 7th/8th grade AAU games and are handling the officiating duties quite well, including shot clock administration. Now getting table personnel to properly manage the shot clock can be a different story!

I understand the thought of adding a shot clock may seem overwhelming in many different aspects, but I'm not sure realistically if those concerns would truly pan out to have the impacts you are imagining.

It really comes down to the fact that there's no problem in HS basketball that would be solved by a shot clock.

And regarding the cost: school funds are finite, money spent on a shot clock would have been spent elsewhere.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

It's definitely an interesting debate-statistics report that the difference between scoring in states with the shot clock and states without is negligible (at least according to an analysis from MaxPreps.com sometime last year). Those who cite the need to prepare kids for college have a legit argument,but if that's the argument then shouldn't all travel ball tournaments be using the shot clock? Since after all that's where a vast majority of the recruiting occurs.

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Are you kidding? That would interfere with the profit margin.

All the upper level girls' AAU tournaments here use a shot clock, as does the boys' Nike Elite League that comes through town. Shot clock violations are never an issue; these kids seem to adapt rather easily.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

And regarding the cost: school funds are finite, money spent on a shot clock would have been spent elsewhere.

Delay the replacement of uniforms for one season and you've got yourself a shot clock.

CEI Ultrak T-200 Basketball Shot Clock - Shot Clocks - Scoreboards - Basketball - Sports and Fitness | Dazadi.com

Paying someone to run it over a period of twenty games each season? That's another story.