Backcourt violation?

[luvhoops]

1) A1 is dribbling in BC under heavy pressure. B2 slaps the ball away from A1. The ball goes towards Team A's FC, rebounds off the shin of A3 who is in the FC, and continues to the BC where A1 retrieves the ball.

BC Violation?

2) Same scenario except ball rebounds of shin of referee.

BC violation?

[just another ref]

1 is a violation.

2 is not.

[Camron Rust]

Backcourt violation criteria:

1. A has Team control
2. Ball gains frontcourt status
3. A was the last to have touched the ball when it returned to the backcourt (note that it doesn't matter where A touched it)
4. A is the first to touch the ball after the ball returned to the backcourt (note that it doesn't matter where A touches it)

If all 4 are true, it is a violation. If any one is not true, it is not a violation.

[Nevadaref]

1. Yes
2. No

Simply look at which team was last to touch before the ball returned to the backcourt.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The OP and the examples given are very good this morning. I cannot remember having such a play in all of my years of officiating and I really had to take a moment and think about it. These are the kind of bang, bang plays that we see especially at the JrHS level.

When I was the Rules Interpreter for the WCBOA I was known for presenting outlandish Third World plays to get my members thinking and applying Rule 4, and this is a good play for making one think.

Keep up the good work you young whippersnappers.

MTD, Sr.

[Altor]

3) A1's pass from the backcourt hits the official in the frontcourt and rebounds back to A1 (still in the backcourt), who is the first to touch the ball.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Altor

3) A1's pass from the backcourt hits the official in the frontcourt and rebounds back to A1 (still in the backcourt), who is the first to touch the ball.

The referee is treated no differently than the floor at that spot. And since the ball has to touch a player from team A in order to get FC status, then no violation.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The referee is treated no differently than the floor at that spot. And since the ball has to touch a player from team A in order to get FC status, then no violation.

Not true.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Not true.

Care to expand on that?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The referee is treated no differently than the floor at that spot. And since the ball has to touch a player from team A in order to get FC status, then no violation.

4-4-2,3,4:

A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the
frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt.

A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last
in contact with a player or the court.

A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball
touching the floor at that individual’s location.

Also:

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.

So, if I'm in the backcourt, holding the ball, having not yet not yet starting a dribble, and I throw the ball into the frontcourt, and backspin the ball in such a way that it bounces in the frontcourt and comes back to me, while I'm still in the backcourt, and I catch it, that's legal? That smells "fishy" to me, and it's not just in the state of Denmark.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The referee is treated no differently than the floor at that spot. And since the ball has to touch a player from team A in order to get FC status, then no violation.

Where do you get that requirement?

4-4-2
"A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt."
4-4-3
"A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court."

Then there's 9-9-2
"While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-4-2,3,4:

A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the
frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt.

A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last
in contact with a player or the court.

A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball
touching the floor at that individual’s location.

Also:

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.

So the ball gets FC status, but there is still no BC violation as it didn't touch a player from team A there before returning to the BC.

My post should have read...

The referee is treated no differently than the floor at that spot. And since the ball has to touch a player from team A in order to satisfy the 3rd condition for a BC violation, then no violation.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Care to expand on that?

NFHS 4-4-2: “A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the frontcourt if "neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt.”

4-4-4: “A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual’s location.”

Think about it: if the ball is in flight from backcourt to frontcourt, you would end your 10-second count if the ball touched in the frontcourt.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

So the ball gets FC status, but there is still no BC violation as it didn't touch a player from team A there before returning to the BC.

Again, not correct. Rule 9-9-2.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

So the ball gets FC status, but there is still no BC violation as it didn't touch a player from team A there before returning to the BC.

The ball remains in control of Team A. Thus, Team A caused the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to the backcourt, and Team A was the first to touch the ball in the backcourt. This play is a violation.