Removing jersey

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

What good does this do?

Also, why not just let the starters go to the hallway (or lockerroom) and change while you wait about 30 extra seconds?

I had it this season the day after our last big discussion about such events (forum jinx). Had the 2 starters run to the locker room and change, then tipped off.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

. . . Had the 2 starters run to the locker room and change, then tipped off.

If there's time for that to happen without undue delay, I'm for it. I recall discussion about this previously, and respect those who might do it differently. Not so much inclined, however, to delay the game for it. -- just not excited about a coach who follows the rule standing over there with his team being made to wait while other coach who doesn't follow the rule gets no consequences or inconvenience, however minor, out of the deal.
I hate this fashion police stuff.
I guess I also equally hate being asked to participate in a survey where we officials are given the impression that we really are involved in the decision-making process when we don't; it's the coaches whose inclinations and whims on rules changes -- however irrational at times -- are influential. Then they expect us to enforce them. Then they complain when we do. Then we complain about each other when we don't.
Rant over.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Any official who tells players to change their undershirts without also telling them and their coach, MULTIPLE TIMES, to leave the confines of the court needs to be a better official.

Exactly.

First game of the season I inform the coach of an illegal undershirt. While I'm still talking to him he signals to his player that the he has to change undershirts who, sitting on the bench with other starters and with the rest of the team huddled around him, immediately starts changing it. Coach goes, "No, not here" and looks at me. At this point the kid is already putting his jersey back on.

I tell the coach just to make sure he complies with the rule moving forward and we go on about our business.

I had similar situation a few years ago with blood on a jersey and handled it the same way. Unless its a repeated offense I'm not issuing a technical foul in this situation. IMO its not intelligently applying the intent and purpose of the rule.

[BoomerSooner]

I'm assuming that everybody is under the impression that removing the jersey within the visual confines of the playing area is automatically a technical foul, and I'll bet I get heavy criticism for suggesting it shouldn't be automatic, but here goes...

Rule 10-3-6(h) reads "a player shall not:" (section 3) ... "commit an unsporting foul. This includes but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as:" (article 6)... "removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area." (part h). Unbroken the rule reads: A player shall not commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

The prohibition found in this rule is on committing an unsporting foul. The question we should to ask in the OP is was there anything unsporting about the players removing their jerseys in order to comply with the rule? Hopefully most of us would argue that any behavior performed with the intent of complying with the rules can't be unsporting. The obvious counter argument to this is that the rule explicitly tells us that removing the jersey is an unsporting act, and it is this interpretation that leads to the idea that this is an automatic foul. The problem is that the rule doesn't explicitly say it is an unsporting act. The phrase "such as" indicates items listed are examples of behaviors that if considered unsporting should be penalized.

To support my position, I'll use rule 10-3-5(b) for comparison. Piecing together the language from section, article and part into a single line, we have: A player shall not delay the game by acts such as failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle blows. If we assume failing to comply with the language of part b is automatically a foul (as is done in often done with removing the jersey), then we should all have many more delay of game technical fouls per game than we already do as there are countless times when a player may take a moment to locate one of the officials or throws it to the official that is farther away by mistake. We don't, however, penalize these situations because there is no real delay of game, which is the activity explicitly prohibited by rule. Were the player to hold the ball in order to prevent the subsequent throw-in so that his coach to relay instructions, the game is delayed requiring the appropriate penalty.

In summary, it is my position that if the act of removing the jersey was intended to automatically be a technical foul, there should be a rule 10-3-11, which would read: A player shall not remove his/her jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area. In this case removing said items would be expressly and explicitly prohibited.

And as a final point, the correct answer to the OP's question is that there is no violation of 10-3-6 as this relates to "Player Technical Fouls". A team doesn't have any players until the game starts. The term used throughout the rules and case books are team members. If we argue that removing the jersey is automatically a technical foul, rule 10-4-1(h) would be the applicable rule as the team members would be considered bench personnel until they are 1 of 5 team members legally on the court.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

....

You know me, I'm not one to argue that all interpretations are static.

[Adam]

To bob's point earlier:
2005-2006 Interpretations
SITUATION 4: During the pregame warm-up, the 12 members of Team A are wearing warm-up tops, but not their team jerseys. Approximately one minute prior to the opening jump ball, the 12 Team A members go to the team bench, remove the warm-up tops and put on the team jerseys. RULING: One technical foul is charged to Team A, and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach. COMMENT: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

On the point that it's not an automatic technical foul:
Same year:
SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)