Rules Question on strange D1 Ending (Video)

[Kend]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not care if it is 10 seconds into the game or 10 seconds left, if there is an obvious violation of the rules, it must be called, close game or blowout.

I have no idea honestly what you are asking. I am not so sure what the call was on the court is what you are necessarily describing here.

Peace

The call on the court is exactly as I described it, which is pretty clear. In short, a player without the ball stepped on the baseline while going past a screen, then returned to a position 15 feet from the baseline and about 6 feet from the sideline. Took 7 steps after he was clearly inbounds. Then he received a pass from a teammate who had been holding the ball prior to that point. As the player who ran the baseline received the pass, the referee said it was a violation for him to touch a pass from a teammate at that point. I have seen identical plays thousands of times over the 50 years I have been involved in basketball as a player, ref, and coach. Never saw that call or heard about it being called.

Video: http://new.livestream.com/bucknell/Bucknellmbb (click on Colgate-Bucknell game, and then advance it to the final 30 seconds which can be found at about 1:55:00 on the video)

(Note that the announcer at the time had no idea what the call was. It was explained by the referee to the coach and then later identically explained by the league office.)


I truly am trying to understand this call and would appreciate some honest feedback.

[Raymond]

You need to provide a clip of the play, I'm not searching thru the entire game. Also need a link to the article where the league comments on the call. And finally, how do we know how far OOB the player stepped out?

[Raymond]

also, that one rule has been around for a while.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You need to provide a clip of the play, I'm not searching thru the entire game. Also need a link to the article where the league comments on the call. And finally, how do we know how far OOB the player stepped out?

It was easy to find -- first possession after the timeout with 20.7 seconds left.

College game, so it doesn't really matter how far. He stepped out when he wasn't entitled to and received a pass from a teammate, becoming the first player to subsequently touch the ball after he stepped out. Correct application of the rule.

7-4-6.b has to do with a player who is allowed to leave the playing court when a team is allowed to inbound from any point along the end line (which, of course, includes a player stepping out of bounds to receive a pass from a teammate). Such a player is allowed to be the first to touch the ball subsequently. Doesn't apply here, obviously.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

It was easy to find -- first possession after the timeout with 20.7 seconds left.

College game, so it doesn't really matter how far. He stepped out when he wasn't entitled to and received a pass from a teammate, becoming the first player to subsequently touch the ball after he stepped out. Correct application of the rule.

7-4-6.b has to do with a player who is allowed to leave the playing court when a team is allowed to inbound from any point along the end line (which, of course, includes a player stepping out of bounds to receive a pass from a teammate). Such a player is allowed to be the first to touch the ball subsequently. Doesn't apply here, obviously.

And I'm guessing the calling official wouldn't agree with the OP's assessment that he went out because he was "jostled" by a defender.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

And I'm guessing the calling official wouldn't agree with the OP's assessment that he went out because he was "jostled" by a defender.

He's out of bounds. If he's not fouled to get out of bounds, it's under his own volition. Some spaces are too small to squeeze through.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

He's out of bounds. If he's not fouled to get out of bounds, it's under his own volition. Some spaces are too small to squeeze through.

I am not so sure that he has to be fouled. But if there is contact that helped bump him off a spot, then yes he might not be under his own volition. That being said, you do not get the benefit of the doubt if you go completely out of bounds without any contact. I bet this was a designed play and he ran around to create a screen.

Peace

[Kend]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not so sure that he has to be fouled. But if there is contact that helped bump him off a spot, then yes he might not be under his own volition. That being said, you do not get the benefit of the doubt if you go completely out of bounds without any contact. I bet this was a designed play and he ran around to create a screen.

Peace

Thanks. There was clearly contact. Can't be seen live. Can be seen when they show replay from different angle. League quoted the rule but apparently is not happy at all with the call at that point. No advantage gained and it was ignored at least a dozen times earlier in the game. I doubt you will see that official again.

[JRutledge]

Yes it was a good call if the player goes out of bounds. It is a rule. And John Adams would want this called. You cannot see the player run out of bounds on the camera, but if he goes out of bounds to get an advantage, it should be called if he is the first to touch the ball during a pass. And yes it should be called in that situation. It probably was not even close either.

Please stop putting stock in what announcers say. They do not know the rules either. Even his description of the play showed how clueless he was. I did not even need to see the play to know what the rule was that applied here.

Peace

[APG]

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes it was a good call if the player goes out of bounds. It is a rule. And John Adams would want this called. You cannot see the player run out of bounds on the camera, but if he goes out of bounds to get an advantage, it should be called if he is the first to touch the ball during a pass. And yes it should be called in that situation. It probably was not even close either.

Peace

While we can't see if it was OOB directly, the spot, speed, and angle where we see him enter the video would strongly suggest he came from OOB.

...and I agree with your assessment.

[bob jenkins]

Assuming he was out of bounds, it's an easy and correct call.

I get it once or twice a season.

Note that the HS rule is different, and officials have differenct philosophies on how tightly to call it in HS.

[Adam]

So B1 is defending A1 and gets screened by A2. To facilitate the screen, A1 runs wide enough around both players that he ends up going OOB. I can't verify he was OOB, but based on the fact that a D1 official called this, I have to assume it fit the letter of the rule. The facts we can verify on tape seem to confirm the spirit as well.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

So B1 is defending A1 and gets screened by A2. To facilitate the screen, A1 runs wide enough around both players that he ends up going OOB. I can't verify he was OOB, but based on the fact that a D1 official called this, I have to assume it fit the letter of the rule. The facts we can verify on tape seem to confirm the spirit as well.

But he won't be back in the league because some anonymous poster here says so. QED.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

But he won't be back in the league because some anonymous poster here says so. QED.

Well then, never mind.

Funny thing is, if we cared enough, we could probably verify when he's shown to be wrong.