Proper mirroring on a three-pointer...

[SC Official]

This is one of my pet peeves, and it came to full fruition when I was working a game last night.

3-man varsity game, I'm the C. A player clearly in my primary with his toes on the arc receives a pass and pulls up for a shot, and I show two fingers toward the ground to make sure the table knows that it's a 2 (acceptable in this area). But unfortunately, the T decided to go up with an attempted 3-point signal even though he had no look at the play and it was in my primary. Sure enough, the shot goes in, he goes up with the touchdown signal, we have conflicting calls, and I have to stop the game to fix it and deal with an angry coach.

I had to remind him after the game that the C/T should not be mirroring an attempted 3-pointer in the other's primary (and it wasn't even a three!). The only thing that C/T should be mirroring is a good three-pointer, not an attempted one. Thankfully, he was receptive and understood what I was saying.

That's enough ranting for me!

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by SC Official

This is one of my pet peeves, and it came to full fruition when I was working a game last night.

3-man varsity game, I'm the C. A player clearly in my primary with his toes on the arc receives a pass and pulls up for a shot, and I show two fingers toward the ground to make sure the table knows that it's a 2 (acceptable in this area). But unfortunately, the T decided to go up with an attempted 3-point signal even though he had no look at the play and it was in my primary. Sure enough, the shot goes in, he goes up with the touchdown signal, we have conflicting calls, and I have to stop the game to fix it and deal with an angry coach.

I had to remind him after the game that the C/T should not be mirroring an attempted 3-pointer in the other's primary (and it wasn't even a three!). The only thing that C/T should be mirroring is a good three-pointer, not an attempted one. Thankfully, he was receptive and understood what I was saying.

That's enough ranting for me!

Usually a sign of an official that's new to 3-man. Was that the case? Good teaching point at half time. Handled correctly, I'll bet he never makes that mistake again.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I had to remind him after the game that the C/T should not be mirroring an attempted 3-pointer in the other's primary (and it wasn't even a three!).

He wasn' mirroring, he was making his own call -- if he mirrored you, there might have been a mechanics faux pau, but it wouldn't have caused a problme.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Usually a sign of an official that's new to 3-man. Was that the case? Good teaching point at half time. Handled correctly, I'll bet he never makes that mistake again.

Or that he is ball watching.

Peace

[zm1283]

I have this same issue with a particular partner in both 2 and 3-whistle. I will mark a three point try in my area and watch the shooter back to the floor only to see him doing the same while ball watching. I've asked if he is watching the shooter, and if so, who is watching the other eight players try to rebound the shot. He says he isn't watching the shooter back to the floor, just marking the three point try.

[DrPete]

While you're at it clearing this 3-man mechanic up for three point attempts, in a two man crew the lead should never mirror the trail. Only the trail should mirror the lead once a three point try is scored.

However, with all that has been discussed above, I don't have a problem with two officials signalling a three point attempt if the spot is close to the dividing line of primary coverage areas.

It's really not a big deal. Hit your whistle, inform the table it was a two, and put the ball back in play. Shouldn't take more than 5 seconds. Ignore the coach, he has better things to worry about. If it needs an explanation tell him it was your area and you marked a two.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's really not a big deal. Hit your whistle, inform the table it was a two...

Yep...only becomes a big deal if you let it. Hit you're whistle as close to the occurrence as possible. Waiting until the end of the quarter or next time out isn't going to make life easier. The only discussion on the play should be with your partner after the half.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's really not a big deal. Hit your whistle, inform the table it was a two, and put the ball back in play. Shouldn't take more than 5 seconds. Ignore the coach, he has better things to worry about. If it needs an explanation tell him it was your area and you marked a two.

Having signals that contradict each other isn't a big deal? Especially when one of them came from a partner who was ball watching (which is what happened)? No, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't something worth losing sleep over, but it's clearly something that doesn't look good and can be avoided just by using proper mechanics.

Half the discussions we have on this forum are not "big deals." That doesn't mean they don't have good teaching points and takeaways.

Originally Posted by SC Official

Having signals that contradict each other isn't a big deal? Especially when one of them came from a partner who was ball watching (which is what happened)? No, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't something worth losing sleep over, but it's clearly something that doesn't look good and can be avoided just by using proper mechanics.

Making the mistake is a bigger deal than correcting it for sure but I know as Trail you have a great look all the way across the 3-point arc. Was he ball watching? Probably, but I would wager it's not that bad, especially if Lead has not initiated a rotation yet. Now if he was signalling a three in C's corner then that would be a big deal.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Making the mistake is a bigger deal than correcting it for sure . . .

Agree. Making this mistake IS a big deal, for it slices straight across the artery that pumps blood into the very heart of the three-person system. (The two-person system, too, but that's not the OP)
For any newer officials -- or vets, for that matter -- who don't consider two arms in the air on a three-point attempt that big a deal, here's an article that includes important concepts you should include in future pre-game conferences with partners.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...Tc4MWM0ZmU4OGY
Ballwatching is the scourge of the three-man system. Fight the habit in yourself and endeaor to peer-coach it out of everyone you work with.

[Rich]

Here's the problem with 2 arms in the air marking a 3:

Are both officials taking that jump-shooter back to the floor?

An arm up tells me that official is responsible for the shooter up and down and I can focus on rebounding action. If they're both going up, who's watching rebounding? The L?

If both go up, the C should drop it and readjust his focus. Pregame this.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Rich

Here's the problem with 2 arms in the air marking a 3:

Are both officials taking that jump-shooter back to the floor?

An arm up tells me that official is responsible for the shooter up and down and I can focus on rebounding action. If they're both going up, who's watching rebounding? The L?

If both go up, the C should drop it and readjust his focus. Pregame this.

If this post had "Like" button I would click on it.

Another problem with it:
While four eyes were on the competive matchup over there, who was surveilling off-ball activity?
Other problems exist "with it", but I'll let others contribute now that I've over-spoken on the issue.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Freddy

If this post had "Like" button I would click on it.

Another problem with it:
While four eyes were on the competive matchup over there, who was surveilling off-ball activity?
Other problems exist "with it", but I'll let others contribute now that I've over-spoken on the issue.

If it's in the gray area between coverages, I get it. Most of us can mark a 3-pointer without actually staring at the shooter. But the crew needs to have some way of saying to each other, "I got the shooter....go do something else."

When I'm the C, I tend to give the T first crack at putting the arm up...but if he doesn't and the shooter's obviously behind the line...I'll put mine up and then I have to take the shooter back to the floor.

As the C, I think too many of us are in a hurry to mark 3s and in a hurry to start closely guarded counts. Let the trail take ALL of those in a gray area close to the 60/40 line. The C is much more useful as an off-ball official.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Rich

Here's the problem with 2 arms in the air marking a 3:

Are both officials taking that jump-shooter back to the floor?

An arm up tells me that official is responsible for the shooter up and down and I can focus on rebounding action. If they're both going up, who's watching rebounding? The L?

If both go up, the C should drop it and readjust his focus. Pregame this.

Originally Posted by Rich

If it's in the gray area between coverages, I get it. Most of us can mark a 3-pointer without actually staring at the shooter. But the crew needs to have some way of saying to each other, "I got the shooter....go do something else."

When I'm the C, I tend to give the T first crack at putting the arm up...but if he doesn't and the shooter's obviously behind the line...I'll put mine up and then I have to take the shooter back to the floor.

As the C, I think too many of us are in a hurry to mark 3s and in a hurry to start closely guarded counts. Let the trail take ALL of those in a gray area close to the 60/40 line. The C is much more useful as an off-ball official.

I can't like these two posts enough. If two guys are marking a three point try (Whether 2 or 3-whistle), someone isn't watching a lot of other things going on.