Tripping, Or Being Tripped ???

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

A player is entitled spot on the floor.provided it legal. In legal guarding definition of 4 we have verticality. in screening defintion we have verticality with a STANCE shoulder width apart. When a player is lying on the floor he is not legal. Consider, player A1 stands 10 feet away from B1. He has his hands into his chest with elbows extending outside shoulders. B1 has all day to avoid A1. He runs close to A1 trying to stay with his man. He runs into A1's extended elbow. That IS a foul on A1. He's standing, not moving. still a foul because he is outside his plane. When your lying on the floor you are horizontal.....

you are not entitled to lie down. you can fall down, and you might not mean it, but sometimes you just have to get the hell out of the way....and if you dont its a foul on you.

(Did better on shift key...work in progress)

Nice explanation.....although it is incorrect.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nice explanation.....although it is incorrect.

yep

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nice explanation.....although it is incorrect.

I liked it...and I think it's right and the reason they removed the other play from the case book and the reason this play is called a block. Having said that, iv'e screwed up before and i'm sure i will again.

All I've seen so far is player entitled to spot on floor provided he get there first. Got it, but that doesnt mean lying down is a legal position. the player standing as i mentioned has a spot. He was there forever. But because his elbows are sticking out that's a foul. Even if B1 runs near him on purpose. he cant be beyond his plane. when you are lying down your feet are on one end. vertical plane goes up. the rest of you is horizontal, out of your vertical plane...just like the screener.

i see the player lying on the floor out of his vertical plane or taking up multiple spots on the floor. 6 foot player lying on floor takes up 2 or 3 spots. He only gets 1.

so tell me the screwup. thx

[BillyMac]

Why did the NFHS remove the "travel" call caseplay from the 2005-06 Casebook?

Why has IAABO (statewide, and again, not the NFHS) now come out, on record, and called this a blocking foul?

Could it be because the "powers that be" have decided that this is now a blocking foul, even though the rule wording may be ambiguous?

Why can't the grand poobah of the NFHS be a participating Forum member? That would make matters a lot simpler.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I liked it...and I think it's right and the reason they removed the other play from the case book and the reason this play is called a block. Having said that, iv'e screwed up before and i'm sure i will again.

All I've seen so far is player entitled to spot on floor provided he get there first. Got it, but that doesnt mean lying down is a legal position. the player standing as i mentioned has a spot. He was there forever. But because his elbows are sticking out that's a foul. Even if B1 runs near him on purpose. he cant be beyond his plane. when you are lying down your feet are on one end. vertical plane goes up. the rest of you is horizontal, out of your vertical plane...just like the screener.

so tell me the screwup. thx

They remove things from the case book, not to change them, but to make space for new interpretations in other areas. They have to remove something when adding something so they don't have to keep adding pages and printing costs. When they want to change a ruling, they don't silently remove it, they replace it with one or more new ones that express the new ruling.

The player lying on the floor is in a legal position (in NFHS only). If they stick up their arm or leg and trip a player with it, they're not. Exactly the same principle as your standing player. A stationary player owns their space from head to toe regardless if their orientation is vertical or horizontal . If that player sticks a limb outside the frame of their torso and causes contact, they have fouled. If they do not stick a limb outside of the frame of their torso, they are legal.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

They remove things from the case book, not to change them, but to make space for new interpretations in other areas. They have to remove something when adding something so they don't have to keep adding pages and printing costs. When they want to change a ruling, they don't silently remove it, they replace it with one or more new ones that express the new ruling.

The player lying on the floor is in a legal position (in NFHS only). A stationary player owns their space from head to toe regardless if their orientation is vertical or horizontal .

Tell me where you get this from. I've pointed out that the screening rule specifically says a player has to have a STANCE and stay inside the vertical plane. Legal Guarding says vertical plane. A player gets a spot on the floor. Lying down takes up multiple spots. A player in your game can lay down to set a screen. defense now has to avoid a six foot space instead of another player vertical in his plane. double or triple screen with only one player....

[TimTaylor]

Camron is correct.

There is a casebook situation that specifically addresses this, and that interpretation remains in effect until it it specifically changed, which NFHS has not done.

The screening rule is irrelevant in the situation being discussed.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

The screening rue is irrelevant in the situation being discussed.

As is any reference to LGP irrelevant, with player on floor not moving after obtaining his position on the floor legally. He may or may not have LGP but that is not germane to making the proper call on this play.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Tell me where you get this from. I've pointed out that the screening rule specifically says a player has to have a STANCE and stay inside the vertical plane. Legal Guarding says vertical plane. A player gets a spot on the floor. Lying down takes up multiple spots.

His body doesn't get any bigger. Go ahead and try to play defense on the floor...pretty hard to block a pass or shot from there.

Originally Posted by BigCat

A player in your game can lay down to set a screen. defense now has to avoid a six foot space instead of another player vertical in his plane. double or triple screen with only one player....

If a player does it on purpose, there are other case plays to deal with that and it isn't going to be a common foul.