The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:26am
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Tripping from Behind

Situation: Defender's foot makes slight contact with the foot of the dribbler he is pursuing. Dribbler trips. Foul for illegal contact.
Question: With no official mechanic for "tripping", which signal should properly be used when reporting foul to the table, illustration #32 Blocking, or #33 Pushing?
Reason for asking:
10-6-6: Contact caused by a defensive player who approaches from behind
is pushing.
Yet,
4-7-1: Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of
an opponent with or without the ball.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 02:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Pushing is really more of movement into the opponents body whether by use of the hands or or the body.

Blocking is the closest foul to describe "tripping".
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 02:45am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Situation: Defender's foot makes slight contact with the foot of the dribbler he is pursuing. Dribbler trips. Foul for illegal contact.
Question: With no official mechanic for "tripping", which signal should properly be used when reporting foul to the table, illustration #32 Blocking, or #33 Pushing?
Reason for asking:
10-6-6: Contact caused by a defensive player who approaches from behind
is pushing.
Yet,
4-7-1: Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of
an opponent with or without the ball.
There's no foul signal because the penalty isn't a foul.

The penalty is 2 minutes in the box. Team A plays 5-on-4 for 2 minutes, trying to score as many in that time for the advantage.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 07:38am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
I do not think it matters. This is something either way you should not worry about. Just call a push, since it is from behind that makes the player fall and move on.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 07:48am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
T-Minus Thirty And Counting ...

I know more about rocket science than I do about NCAA officiating, but isn't there a trip signal for NCAA women? Or is it a hit in the head signal? OK. Let's get back to talking about propulsion systems.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 08:27am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I know more about rocket science than I do about NCAA officiating, but isn't there a trip signal for NCAA women? Or is it a hit in the head signal? OK. Let's get back to talking about propulsion systems.
There is a trip signal in both NCAA mechanics.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 08:41am
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Wouldn't we consider tripping a form of illegal contact?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 12:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Wouldn't we consider tripping a form of illegal contact?
I don't think the question is whether it is illegal and a foul but what signal should be used.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:04pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I don't think the question is whether it is illegal and a foul but what signal should be used.
Actually, that's my point.

Is tripping a type of blocking? Typically not. Pushing? No. Holding? No. Hand Check? No.

That leaves "illegal use," or sometimes, "illegal." While the full description is "illegal use of hand(s)," we typically say the first one or two words when reporting the foul. Tripping is definitely illegal, so why not go with that?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:05pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
The definition of blocking seems to fit pretty well.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:14pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Actually, that's my point.

Is tripping a type of blocking? Typically not. Pushing? No. Holding? No. Hand Check? No.

That leaves "illegal use," or sometimes, "illegal." While the full description is "illegal use of hand(s)," we typically say the first one or two words when reporting the foul. Tripping is definitely illegal, so why not go with that?
Don't say anything; just give the block signal and move on. No need to verbalize the "type" of foul. Everyone will know what happened anyway.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,193
Type of foul signals are all but obsolete in terms of usefulness. We still need to give them, but they are worthless. The only real exceptions are block/charge, something else that differentiates offense and defense, or situations where a foul caused a violation by the other team and you are calling the foul. I.e. bump caused a travel and you signal for a foul and a push (to sell it).
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:32pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie View Post
Type of foul signals are all but obsolete in terms of usefulness. We still need to give them, but they are worthless. The only real exceptions are block/charge, something else that differentiates offense and defense, or situations where a foul caused a violation by the other team and you are calling the foul. I.e. bump caused a travel and you signal for a foul and a push (to sell it).
My only question here is the use of the word "obsolete," which implies that at one time they were more useful than they are now. Were they?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:37pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Wouldn't we consider tripping a form of illegal contact?
The answer to that is we can consider tripping to be either illegal contact or incidental contact, depending on our judgment using the criteria outlined in NFHS rules 4-19-1 and 4-27.

Freddy in the original post of this thread though had already told us that the trip to be considered was illegal contact, using those exact words.

Does that answer your question?

And for my own personal edification, do you hold a Ph.D in obfuscation?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 13, 2010, 01:39pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Don't say anything; just give the block signal and move on. No need to verbalize the "type" of foul. Everyone will know what happened anyway.
I do not necessarily agree with that. I have giving just a signal only to be asked "What did he do?" That being said I do verbalize my signal, but I just do not keep it to "push" or "block." I have said "tripping" while giving one of the signals.

I have found I get fewer questions after I report a foul.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tripping? Eastshire Soccer 1 Fri Aug 27, 2010 08:39am
Tripping wrwom Basketball 24 Mon Dec 01, 2008 09:10pm
Tripping in Basketball GFS-1 Basketball 36 Thu Dec 27, 2007 01:01pm
Kicking/Tripping Ch1town Basketball 7 Mon Jun 25, 2007 08:21pm
Tripping Suudy Football 10 Tue Oct 11, 2005 04:58am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:44pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1