Duty to Report???

[PGCougar]

Based on some local HS soccer kids who were drunk at a scrimmage - caught by their coach who reported them, I became curious about the duty to report.

If you are officiating a basketball game and it appears that a kid is intoxicated, what are your responsibilities and actions as an official? Does this vary by association?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by PGCougar
If you are officiating a basketball game and it appears that a kid is intoxicated, what are your responsibilities and actions as an official? Does this vary by association?

As far as I know, my association makes no requirement that I report this type of incident to anyone.

Would I tell the coach? Probably. Would I tell the police? Probably not.

[Mlancaster]

I don't think that there are any stipulations requiring an official to take any action here, but I agree with Chuck.
Let game management know what you have seen and let them take care of it. This would take any potential problems away from the officials.

[zebraman]

Seems funny to me that the rulebook specifically addresses tobacco as a technical foul rather than being more broad and including drugs and/or alcohol.

Regardless, I would notify game management. I would also follow-up with the A.D. later through our local association to make sure that it was addressed.

Z

[Kelvin green]

I would also report it as an umusual circumstance to my High School Activities Association

I would think that if you have a well placed suspicion that kid is intoxicated that we would have a duty to prevent him from playing

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman
Seems funny to me that the rulebook specifically addresses tobacco as a technical foul rather than being more broad and including drugs and/or alcohol.

You can see someone smoking or chewing tobacco.That is clear proof of usage. To smell alcohol on someone is not necessarily proof that they have been drinking. Medications such as some cough medicines will give you the same type of smell. Suspicion of drug use is usually that,too- just suspicion also and not irrefutable proof. That's why we just report our suspicions to a coach or AD, and let them make the decision. It covers our butts both ways- by alerting the proper authorities to a potential problem,but also not acting hastily without sufficient proof to back up our actions. Of course,if the kid is showing signs of physical impairment,like stumbling around or falling down,then that is enough proof for me.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Sep 2nd, 2003 at 01:36 PM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
You can see someone smoking or chewing tobacco.That is clear proof of usage. To smell alcohol on someone is not necessarily proof that they have been drinking.

You're not going to SEE the smoking right on the court, you'd see it as you walked around the gym trying to find the door that's open. That's also when you would SEE the drinking, or the roach clip (wow does that date me or what?!?) or whatever. If you only smelled tobacco, would you report it?

[NICK]

I will not referee a game where the participants have been drinking. That would be looking for trouble.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker

You're not going to SEE the smoking right on the court, you'd see it as you walked around the gym trying to find the door that's open. That's also when you would SEE the drinking, or the roach clip (wow does that date me or what?!?) or whatever. If you only smelled tobacco, would you report it?

Juulie,you're changing the context of the discussion.We have no jurisdiction off the court,walking around,as to whether we can call a T for tobacco usage. Z was talking about making alcohol a technical foul,the same as tobacco usage is now. We now only have jurisdiction over tobacco usage on the court or the bench, and our jurisdiction only encompasses the teams- no one else in the gym- and it also ends when we leave the court at the end of a game. What I am saying is that the smell of alcohol on a player,coach or member of a team's bench is not prima facie proof that they have been drinking. We could find ourselves Ting somebody up for using a cough medicine,if we went by smell alone as proof that someone had been drinking.That,I think,is the reason that alcohol has never been included with tobacco usage as a T. Of course,simply smelling tobacco on some one is also never proof that they have been smoking,either. You had better catch them actually smoking or chewing on the bench now before you'd ever think of calling a T.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Sep 3rd, 2003 at 06:32 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
You're not going to SEE the smoking right on the court, you'd see it as you walked around the gym trying to find the door that's open.

In a basketball context, you're probably right, Juulie. But the NF also writes rules for other games (notably baseball and football) where the use of tobacco products during the game used to be perfectly acceptable. Perhaps the anti-tobacco rules originated in those sports and then the various rules committees incorporated them into all HS sports as a general NF policy. So even tho you'll never actually see it on a basketball team's bench, the rule is there for consistency's sake?

That would also explain why there are anti-tobacco rules but no anti-alcohol rules. There is no sport (other than adult-league softball, hmmmm, and maybe darts) where drinking alcohol during the contest is acceptable.

I'm honestly just guessing, but it sounds reasonable.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Juulie,you're changing the context of the discussion.We have no jurisdiction off the court,walking around,as to whether we can call a T for tobacco usage. Z was talking about making alcohol a technical foul,the same as tobacco usage is now. We now only have jurisdiction over tobacco usage on the court or the bench, ...

Coach, you may be right, I think I kicked that last one.:0

Chuck -- your explanation helps a lot.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

In a basketball context, you're probably right, Juulie. But the NF also writes rules for other games (notably baseball and football) where the use of tobacco products during the game used to be perfectly acceptable. Perhaps the anti-tobacco rules originated in those sports and then the various rules committees incorporated them into all HS sports as a general NF policy. So even tho you'll never actually see it on a basketball team's bench, the rule is there for consistency's sake?

Chuck,

I really do not know where you get your information, but in both baseball and basketball tabacco product use is illegal in those NF sports. It warrants an ejection automatically with the discovery of the use of those products. This applies to the coaches, trainers, team attendants and players. Clearly in the Football Rulebook under 9-8-1j this is spelled out. And if I had the Baseball Rulebook handy, I would quote that rule as well. Not only that, it is illegal in my state to have any of these products on school property. I am sure other states have a similar law, so it might not even be something we have to deal with alone.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I really do not know where you get your information, but in both baseball and basketball tabacco product use is illegal in those NF sports.

No kidding? Would you just once, PLEASE, actually read my freaking post before making this kind of inane reply? Please?

To the moderators, I'm sorry. But jeez, can you blame me on this one?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

No kidding? Would you just once, PLEASE, actually read my freaking post before making this kind of inane reply? Please?

To the moderators, I'm sorry. But jeez, can you blame me on this one?

I did xxxxxxx. It was never acceptable in any rules I know of. It was not acceptable when I was in HS, it is not acceptable now. That is why I said, "I do not know where you get your information from." When was it acceptable Chuck, 1950? Maybe back when schools were segeragated and "chewing gum" was considered a Top 5 problem of teenagers in High School, but it was never acceptable to smoke a cigar on the sidelines.

Peace

[Edited by mick on Sep 3rd, 2003 at 05:42 PM]

[rockyroad]

Let's see...I gradjiated HS in '81, and my baseball/wrestling coach had a wad of chew in his mouth during every game/meet I can remember, so I know it was legal then...that's not the same as the 50's is it??

And Chuck, exactly how does one become an "Association hoe"?? Inquiring minds want to know...