Throw-in

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

We've danced around this one for a while but the ruling is not clear in the thread.

The ruling should be clear -- it's a violation if the throw-in pass first hits out of bounds.

I do find it interesting that the ruling on the FT (immediate violation) is different from the ruling on a throw-in (wait until 5 or a violation). Many of the same options (specifically a TO) are, in theory, available to the team.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ruling should be clear -- it's a violation if the throw-in pass first hits out of bounds.

I do find it interesting that the ruling on the FT (immediate violation) is different from the ruling on a throw-in (wait until 5 or a violation). Many of the same options (specifically a TO) are, in theory, available to the team.

thinking out loud again--which is always dangerous… the free throw--immediate violation play, i think, cites for support, the provision where free thrower can't step into lane before ball hits rim. -- if you hand me the ball at free throw line i can dribble it in the lane obviously. if i fumble it and it bounces to the right of me, into the lane, BUT i can still reach it while inside the semicircle before anyone else touches it have i violated? as i said, i think, the immediate violation play cites the part of the rule where free thrower can't go into the lane before it hits rim. maybe that play assumes the fumble of the ball goes into the lane clearly out of my reach? violation when that happens.

whether i dribble or fumble--if I'm staying in my semicircle to get ball back i should be ok…?

on the throw in play it says player has the ball and then fumbles it and leaves the spot to retrieve it. violation for that clearly. we are talking about still counting to 5 if he stays in the designated spot. perhaps when the ball bounces far enough away that it clearly can't be retrieved by the thrower in with a foot over the designated spot a violation should be called? that would be a way to reconcile the two plays.
i havnt thought it through so there may be holes in that thought.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

As I understand it, player control does not exist during a throw in -- just team control. So the rules for a TO with a live ball and the clock running can't apply.

Player control absolutely exists on a throw-in. He/she is holding or dribbling a live ball, correct?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by ODog

Player control absolutely exists on a throw-in. He/she is holding or dribbling a live ball, correct?

I agree:

2010-11 Basketball Rules Fundamentals, #2 says: "Neither a team nor any player is ever in control during a dead ball, jump ball, throw-in, or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal."

2012-13 Basketball Rules Fundamnetals, #2 and subsequent publications, omit the word "throw-in."

Note: I've misplaced my 2011-12 edition, so I can't verify if the change was made before 2012-13. Sorry.

[mutantducky]

quit being a crybaby Nevada just because I disagreed with you on another thread. No reason to bring that here.

I didn't see the spectator part in the question, I thought it was a violation if a player is dribbling and it goes off his leg.

So a bounce pass from a throwin inbounds would be illegal. A bounce pass to another teammate out of bounds, (play when you can run the endline) would be ok?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

quit being a crybaby Nevada just because I disagreed with you on another thread. No reason to bring that here.

I didn't see the spectator part in the question, I thought it was a violation if a player is dribbling and it goes off his leg.

So a bounce pass from a throwin inbounds would be illegal. A bounce pass to another teammate out of bounds, (play when you can run the endline) would be ok?

Is the second one a throw-in pass? That should answer your question (the specific words have specific meanings here).

And, not all "bounce passes" on throw-in passes are illegal.