Video Request: Wichita St. vs. GWU (Diamond Head Classic Championship)

[crosscountry55]

12/25/14, ESPN2, after inbound at 17:25 in the 2nd half.

Good non-BI no call by the officials. Rim was accidentally grabbed by defender while shot was in the cylinder and the backboard vibrated for quite a while. Rim returned to steady state long before the shot came down on it. GWU coach screamed for BI, but to no avail.

This happens frequently in my HS games and....well, sorry coach, but there's no rules coverage there. Maybe there should be, but that's an issue for rules committees to take up on another day.

If you listen on, I think the announcers jacked up their assessment completely. That said, I'll humor them. Suppose the rim grab/grasp was intentional. Then what do you have? I still think nothing. If the ball was dead, different story (because dunking/stuffing or grasping the rim with the ball is dead is a T). Thoughts?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Suppose the rim grab/grasp was intentional. Then what do you have? I still think nothing. If the ball was dead, different story (because dunking/stuffing or grasping the rim with the ball is dead is a T). Thoughts?

It has to be a dead ball grasp? Are you sure? (Please note the semicolon):

10-3-3: A player shall not: Grasp either basket at any time during the game except to prevent injury; dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball.

[crosscountry55]

Oh good catch, sir! I never noticed that before.

So in that case, I suppose one outcome could have been a T on the defender in question. If so, since a try was in flight, the ball does not become dead until the try ends (score it if it falls). Also (and this didn't happen in this case but it's worth noting) if the ball hadn't been released but the player was in the act of shooting, the foul was on the defense, so the shooter gets continuous motion.

In NFHS, two shots to any player or sub, then ball at division line to the offended team. It's not BI, but the result would probably appease the enraged coach!

In NCAAM, which was the case here, it's 10-4-1f: "Grasping either basket in an excessive, emphatic manner during the officials’ jurisdiction when the player is not, in the judgment of an official, trying to prevent an obvious injury to self or others." That's a Class B technical, so would not count toward the team foul count nor the player's five. Two shots and then POI. If the initial basket fell, the POI would be a throw in for B anywhere along the end line. If not, since a try was in flight (no team control), I think you have to go to the possession arrow.

NCAAW is similar (10-3-3); it's a player technical. 2 shots, POI, but in this case the foul does count toward the team foul total and the foul does count toward the player's five toward disqualification.

(By the way, all this is hypothetical. In the video I've requested, I still don't believe the basket was grasped in an "excessive, emphatic manner.")

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Oh good catch, sir!

Just because I'm an esteemed Forum member doesn't mean that you have to call me sir.

http://youtu.be/qoYsfbq3vMc

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just because I'm an esteemed Forum member doesn't mean that you have to call me sir.

http://youtu.be/qoYsfbq3vMc

As long as you don't call me late for dinner.

MTD, Sr.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

12/25/14, ESPN2, after inbound at 17:25 in the 2nd half.

Good non-BI no call by the officials. Rim was accidentally grabbed by defender while shot was in the cylinder and the backboard vibrated for quite a while. Rim returned to steady state long before the shot came down on it. GWU coach screamed for BI, but to no avail.

This happens frequently in my HS games and....well, sorry coach, but there's no rules coverage there. Maybe there should be, but that's an issue for rules committees to take up on another day.

If you listen on, I think the announcers jacked up their assessment completely. That said, I'll humor them. Suppose the rim grab/grasp was intentional. Then what do you have? I still think nothing. If the ball was dead, different story (because dunking/stuffing or grasping the rim with the ball is dead is a T). Thoughts?

Stop the presses. I was wrong the whole time because I didn't realize the NCAA (M & W) rules committees adopted the very rule I suggested they do...two years before I suggested it. It's NCAA 9-17-2a(5) in both books.

I realized I was wrong when I saw a similar call made in the 1st half closing seconds of Gonzaga/BYU on 12/27. Here's what I wrote about that in the vid requests that started pouring in:
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....Was all set to say, "bad call," but then I checked the NCAAM book, and lo and behold, see Rule 9-17-2a(5), which was new for the 2013-15 edition:

"Basket interference occurs when a player...causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder."

So then I used my DVR to look at the play again and...turned out it was an excellent call.

Based on this information, I need to go back and reassess an opinion I had on an earlier thread regarding a rim grab that caused backboard vibration in the Wichita St. vs. GWU game on 12/25. The officials no-called that one, and in hindsight based on 9-17-2a(5), maybe it was BI after all.

I would love to see this adopted by the NFHS, but the problem is that most HS backboards are not portable, so incidences of backboard vibration are much less. For this reason, to avoid officiating inconsistencies, I imagine the rules committee would not adopt it.
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