Proper application for correctable error?

[bainsey]

Let's say A-1 is shooting one free throw. A-2 steps into the lane before the release, but the T doesn't catch it (two man crew), and the free throw is good.

B takes the ensuing the throw-in, and gets to the division line when the new T has a "wait a minute" moment, and blows his whistle. He calls his partner over and quietly discusses whether A-2 stepped in. Definite knowledge is offered, and the new L cancels the basket.

While this is definitely within the time frame of a correctable error, is this a proper application of it? Aren't correctable errors more about what should have been -- or haven't been -- assessed?

[Raymond]

CE rules are for errors in awarding or not awarding free throws or points. Missing a violation does not fall under that category.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Let's say A-1 is shooting one free throw. A-2 steps into the lane before the release, but the T doesn't catch it (two man crew), and the free throw is good.

B takes the ensuing the throw-in, and gets to the division line when the new T has a "wait a minute" moment, and blows his whistle. He calls his partner over and quietly discusses whether A-2 stepped in. Definite knowledge is offered, and the new L cancels the basket.

While this is definitely within the time frame of a correctable error, is this a proper application of it? Aren't correctable errors more about what should have been -- or haven't been -- assessed?

Sound to me like you missed it twice. If the other official was 100% sure A-2 violated they should have blown it dead as soon as the T didn't get it. Once B secured the ball for the inbound you are eating that one.

[La Rikardo]

My gut feeling is that once the officials allow the ball to become live for B's throw-in, their opportunity to call the violation by A2 is passed. However, I can't find a rule reference that explicitly puts a deadline on when the officials are allowed to make or change a judgment call. Any guidance?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

My gut feeling is that once the officials allow the ball to become live for B's throw-in, their opportunity to call the violation by A2 is passed. However, I can't find a rule reference that explicitly puts a deadline on when the officials are allowed to make or change a judgment call. Any guidance?

I would say even before the ball becomes live, if you wait even so long as to after the ball goes through the hoop, you're probably too late, simply because of the problems a late whistle in this scenario would cause. Similar to if you were to wait on a last second, half court shot that was NOT released before the horn, if you wait until it goes in to make the call, you're going to be causing yourself problems. Either get it right away, or they got away with one

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

My gut feeling is that once the officials allow the ball to become live for B's throw-in, their opportunity to call the violation by A2 is passed. However, I can't find a rule reference that explicitly puts a deadline on when the officials are allowed to make or change a judgment call. Any guidance?

Same as if A1 had traveled while making a lay-up. You have to make the call when it happens, not after the opponent advances the ball to half-court.

Originally Posted by j51969

Sound to me like you missed it twice. If the other official was 100% sure A-2 violated they should have blown it dead as soon as the T didn't get it. Once B secured the ball for the inbound you are eating that one.

It wasn't the other official, it was the primary (Trail) official who saw it, missed it, then had a "oh I missed that, I should correct it" moment.

[La Rikardo]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I would say even before the ball becomes live, if you wait even so long as to after the ball goes through the hoop, you're probably too late, simply because of the problems a late whistle in this scenario would cause. Similar to if you were to wait on a last second, half court shot that was NOT released before the horn, if you wait until it goes in to make the call, you're going to be causing yourself problems. Either get it right away, or they got away with one

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Same as if A1 had traveled while making a lay-up. You have to make the call when it happens, not after the opponent advances the ball to half-court.

I certainly agree, and I don't think I'd ever make a call more than a second after I observe it, I'm just wondering if there's a rule reference that forbids the officials making or changing a decision after some defined deadline.

[JRutledge]

There are 5 correctable errors in Rule 2-10, this is not one of them.

1. Failure to Award a merited FT
2. Awarding an unmerited FT
3. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a FT
4. Attempting a FT at the wrong basket
5. Erroneously counting or canceling a score

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are 5 correctable errors in Rule 2-10, this is not one of them.

1. Failure to Award a merited FT
2. Awarding an unmerited FT
3. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a FT
4. Attempting a FT at the wrong basket
5. Erroneously counting or canceling a score

And all, but one, are about free throws.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And all, but one, are about free throws.

your HAND picture contains the following statement. this was on our test...

"ALL errors must be corrected before the second live ball"

its just not true. example--player fouled shooting a 3. wrong player goes to the line. that is the error. you bounce him the ball for first FT(live ball)....second FT(second live ball)...third free throw(3rd live ball)...

clock has not run so you can still correct the error...which is why rule says it must be corrected during the first dead ball after the clock has started..the question on the test did not say whether the clock was running or not. ALL errors do not have to be corrected before the second live ball...

sorry to bring that up here. actually, its Billy's fault for the drawing.

[bainsey]

Why is the wrong player on the middle finger?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

your HAND picture contains the following statement. this was on our test..."ALL errors must be corrected before the second live ball" its just not true. ..which is why rule says it must be corrected during the first dead ball after the clock has started...

BigCat is correct:

[bob jenkins]

I'm all for pictures, but the "hand" doesn't really seem to add anything to this discussion for remembering correctable errors, at least to me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm all for pictures, but the "hand" doesn't really seem to add anything to this discussion for remembering correctable errors, at least to me.

IAABO believes that it's an easy way (for beginning officials) to remember that there are only five correctable errors, and that four of them, the four fingers, have to do with free throws, whereas the fifth, the thumb, is about canceling, or counting, in error, a score.

Unfortunately, as Big Cat pointed out, IAABO could have done a better job with labeling.

With the exception of the poor labeling, I believe that it's a pretty good mnemonic device.