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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:11pm
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Illegal Undershirts Prior to Start of Game

Had this situation come up and wanted to get opinions.

Prior to the game, Team A had been practicing with their warmup shirts on. During the captains meeting, Team A coach is asked if team is properly equipped and of course he says yes. Starting lineups are announced and kids still have warmups on. They shed the warmups to come out for the tip and 3 kids have illegal undershirts...black undershirts with white jerseys.

Now obviously the kids can't play with them and by rule they can't take them off at the bench. They need to go back to the locker room and change. Now, by rule, the coach can't send 3 other players in to start the game otherwise it would be an admin tech for changing the starters. Is it acceptable to hold the game to let them change or is a DOG warranted here? Couldn't find this in the case book but would like a specific rule reference if possible.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:18pm
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Originally Posted by acgod24 View Post
Had this situation come up and wanted to get opinions.

Prior to the game, Team A had been practicing with their warmup shirts on. During the captains meeting, Team A coach is asked if team is properly equipped and of course he says yes. ...
For those who ask, what happens when a coach says "no"?
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:19pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
For those who ask, what happens when a coach says "no"?
Inform the coach those players will not be allowed to participate until they are legally equipped.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acgod24 View Post
Had this situation come up and wanted to get opinions.

Prior to the game, Team A had been practicing with their warmup shirts on. During the captains meeting, Team A coach is asked if team is properly equipped and of course he says yes. Starting lineups are announced and kids still have warmups on. They shed the warmups to come out for the tip and 3 kids have illegal undershirts...black undershirts with white jerseys.

Now obviously the kids can't play with them and by rule they can't take them off at the bench. They need to go back to the locker room and change. Now, by rule, the coach can't send 3 other players in to start the game otherwise it would be an admin tech for changing the starters. Is it acceptable to hold the game to let them change or is a DOG warranted here? Couldn't find this in the case book but would like a specific rule reference if possible.
Designated starters can be changed for illegal equipment without penalty. rule 3-2-2(a) nfhs. you cannot change designated starter for illegal equipment in NCAA M without penalty. 10-2b

Last edited by BigCat; Tue Dec 02, 2014 at 12:36pm.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acgod24 View Post
Had this situation come up and wanted to get opinions.

Prior to the game, Team A had been practicing with their warmup shirts on. During the captains meeting, Team A coach is asked if team is properly equipped and of course he says yes. Starting lineups are announced and kids still have warmups on. They shed the warmups to come out for the tip and 3 kids have illegal undershirts...black undershirts with white jerseys.

Now obviously the kids can't play with them and by rule they can't take them off at the bench. They need to go back to the locker room and change. Now, by rule, the coach can't send 3 other players in to start the game otherwise it would be an admin tech for changing the starters. Is it acceptable to hold the game to let them change or is a DOG warranted here? Couldn't find this in the case book but would like a specific rule reference if possible.
Or ...

3-2-2
ART. 2

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1, a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed (see 10-1-2 Penalty):

a. Changing a designated starter, unless necessitated by illness, injury, illegal equipment or apparel, etc., or to attempt a technical-foul free throw.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 01:02pm
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I'd let them fix it and wait a minute or two.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 01:10pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'd let them fix it and wait a minute or two.
Glad I'm not the only one.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 01:24pm
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Glad I'm not the only one.
Me too
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 01:31pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Glad I'm not the only one.
It's a pretty basic, obvious rule. undershirts have to match. in a high school game i tell them to give me 3 other starters. It's just another call. waiting for them to run to the locker room and change etc. rewards them. i don't think i'm nitpicking when they can't get an obvious rule straight. i let them play for a minute without their starters. they will probably figure it out/take it serious the next game…
a grade school game i can see waiting…
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 04:42pm
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Why cause a problem? Just let them change their shirts and delay the game a couple of minutes. I understand not wanting to hold the game up for it, but I don't see the big deal.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 04:52pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'd let them fix it and wait a minute or two.
Exactly what we did last night...took the starter about 30 seconds to run out into the hall and get that t-shirt off and get back onto the court.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 04:54pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I don't see the big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Why cause a problem? Just let them change their shirts and delay the game a couple of minutes.
I'm sure the opposing coach who knows the rule wouldn't consider your suspending of a clear rule a "big deal", especially if you were doing it solely for personal convenience, not wanting to "cause a problem".
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 06:03pm
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
I'm sure the opposing coach who knows the rule wouldn't consider your suspending of a clear rule a "big deal", especially if you were doing it solely for personal convenience, not wanting to "cause a problem".
I'm not suspending anything. The rule *allows* a change in starter for an illegal shirt -- it does NOT forbid me from giving 30 seconds to a minute for a player to change the shirt.

It would take longer to explain the rule to the coach and require new starters and get them properly marked in the book for me to let the kid(s) change out of the illegal shirts.

Sometimes it's better for you and for the game to put a little oil on that wheel.
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2014, 10:35am
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Why cause a problem? Just let them change their shirts and delay the game a couple of minutes. I understand not wanting to hold the game up for it, but I don't see the big deal.
Thx Bryan,

If they can correct it within a minute that's fine. rule says it is supposed to be a T to delay game for more than a minute. so they can delay game by less than a minute. that should be enough time to fix it so your likely not going to have to replace starters etc. However, if they can't fix it in a minute i don't have any problem telling them to replace them. i won't wait minutes for this one.

as i said, its not a big deal--just another call. so the starters check in at the first dead ball... the referee didn't cause the problem. if it was a new rule or something obscure id look at it differently. But this is 5th grade stuff--coaching 101…having 3 players, who i assume are on a varsity team, come out with black shirts under white uniforms falls into the major coaching/player screwup category. there may be things id delay longer than a minute for….this isn't one of them.
i do agree with Rich that some times putting oil on the wheel is better…i just don't see this situation as needing it. thx
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Old Wed Dec 03, 2014, 10:50am
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Originally Posted by SCRef1983 View Post
Am I wrong in saying NFHS rule book states:
Undershirts can be black, white, beige or dominate color of jersey so long as all players wear the same color
Yes you are wrong.
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