When do we not reverse the AP arrow?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

I have stated page numbers, articles and quotes directly from the rulebook. Here are the responses I have received.

Since the kick was intentional (by definition), it falls in the second category. Since the kick isn't legal (also by definition), the throw-in doesn't end, so the AP arrow isn't switched.

The throw in doesn't end. So wouldn't it still be an AP throw-in?

A gets a throw in for the violation, and the throw-in for the held ball "never happens"

In the rule book (Pg. 40, Art. 5) only a violation by the throw-in team ends the throw-in. A defensive violation does not, therefore, Isn't it still an AP throw-in?

The throw-in doesn't end on a kicked ball because the touch was not legal.

Exactly. The throw-in doesn't end because it was a violation by the defense. So it's still an AP throw-in isn't in?

Because A's ensuing throw-in (after the kick) is for the kicked ball violation. It's no longer an AP throw-in. A still retains the arrow.

Why is it no longer an AP throw-in? The rule says the throw-in ends on a violation by the offense, not the defense.

if you stick your foot out and kick ball that is an intentional act. not legal touch so throw in doesn't end… good luck

You're right. The throw in doesn't end on a kicked ball. So what kind of throw-in do you call the next one? Since the throw-in didn't end, wouldn't it still be an AP throw-in?

it does say that the only time the arrow is lost is when the throw in team violates. in a note or comment.

EXACTLY! So why does the defense lose the arrow on a violation? The arrow is only lost when the throw-in team (offense) violates. Just like you said. Why would the defense lose the arrow for a kicked ball (violation)?

It's postponed until the next held ball -- not until the next throw-in.

Where does the book say that? I've looked all over. Practically read the whole thing. Cite me a page number or something.

Did you get to 4.42.5?

Yep. And it says word for word: "The throw in ends when: The throw in team commits a throw-in violation." Not one word about a defensive violation.



Not one place in this entire book does it say that the defensive team can lose the arrow on a violation on a throw-in. Also not one place where it says the throw in ends on a violation by the defense. Only the offense can lose the arrow on a violation, not the defense. It clearly states this on page 40 and 48.

Maybe I'm crazy!!??

1. we have a jump ball to start the game. team B gets possession. we now point the arrow to team A.
2. we have a tie up. we go to the arrow. Team A has the arrow. We hand them the ball. they are the offense..they have the ball and the arrow...they are the only team at this moment that could LOSE the arrow. THE DEFENSIVE TEAM ON AN AP THROW IN DOES NOT HAVE THE ARROW TO LOSE.
3. when team A throws the ball in and B kicks it, that is a violation by B. why do we have to throw the ball in again? because B kicked it. the next throw in will be for the kicking violation. Yes, we say the AP throw in did not end but that is only so you know not to change the arrow. timing issues also.
4. just because we say an AP throw in did not end doesnt mean that everthing that happens next has anything to do with the AP throw in. i do believe there is a case play that actually says that the next throw in is for the violation, not related to arrow.