Pay debate

[Raymond]

I do not believe Title IX covers officiating contracts.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I do not believe Title IX covers officiting contracts.

Years ago, when conferences started going 3 man for boys basketball around here, one of the hang ups preventing everybody from doing it was that the schools did not want or feel the need to use 3 officials on girls basketball, but they were all afraid that if they didn't, they would get sued under title IX. Unfortunately title IX has far reaching implications. I have seen schools have to put lights up on their softball fields because they had them on the baseball field and were sued under title IX. I have seen D3 college conferences change their schedule because of title IX lawsuits. In the past, whenever there were women's/men's double headers, the women's game was always the early game, now some of the conferences around here alternate by game or year because a parent sued on conference under title IX and won.

[JRutledge]

It may not be specific with officiating contracts, but I believe if you do not provide the girl's with the best opportunity, you can be seen as not compliant and at the very least deal with a lawsuit to settle the issue. And most places are afraid of the lawsuit, not just the result. And if you do not pay officials the same, it might be seen as not getting the best officials to work their games. I am not so sure I agree and feel like sports like softball should not pay the same as baseball for instance, but the Title IX fear is what prevents that even being tried.

Peace

[Raymond]

For the longest time here, AAA BV was using 3 person while AAA GV only got 2 officials.

[Camron Rust]

As long as the two sides (boys/girls) are provided with the same budget, I don't think it would be a Title IX issue if they chose to spend their resources differently.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

For the longest time here, AAA BV was using 3 person while AAA GV only got 2 officials.

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

There likely isn't any, but if you have more people seeing things and calling things, it is hard to argue that more is better.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

Proof is not always required for change.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

It was that way for years. It changed when my local association self-imposed a pay cut across the board to finance a 3rd official for those games.

My point being, though, was there were never any conversations about Title IX being violated.

[egj13]

In my neck of the woods we get...wait for it...$35 for JV and $45 for V. All three man crews, always a JV/V DH and travel is a flat rate regardless of how far you drive. My assoc covers a stretch of interstate 196 miles from point A to Z...and I happen to be in the middle...average drive for me is 60 miles one way and I get a flat rate. The state sets the high-limit that we can charge as an assoc so we don't have say in it. Good thing I don't do this for the money!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I do not believe Title IX covers officiting contracts.

I'm always curious about this: can a school legally, intentionally get 2 officials in all their girls games while getting 3 for the boys games of the comparable level?

Let's be honest, there are some varsity girls games out here that really only need two, but they get three. The JV boys at these schools could not be reasonably worked with 2, however. Those schools get 3 for JV/V B and G.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm always curious about this: can a school legally, intentionally get 2 officials in all their girls games while getting 3 for the boys games of the comparable level?

Let's be honest, there are some varsity girls games out here that really only need two, but they get three. The JV boys at these schools could not be reasonably worked with 2, however. Those schools get 3 for JV/V B and G.

I think this is the key phrase. What is reasonable? Some of us here can remember when the NBA used two officials. Were all the games up to this point "unreasonable"? Most things eventually come down to money, at least to some degree. If the schools think they can't afford it for both, some would probably cut back to 2 for the boys rather than go to 3 for the girls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I think this is the key phrase. What is reasonable? Some of us here can remember when the NBA used two officials. Were all the games up to this point "unreasonable"? Most things eventually come down to money, at least to some degree. If the schools think they can't afford it for both, some would probably cut back to 2 for the boys rather than go to 3 for the girls.

Yep, and some of the smaller schools do. What is reasonable now can't be compared to what was reasonable in 1984, unless you're in the land that time forgot.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm always curious about this: can a school legally, intentionally get 2 officials in all their girls games while getting 3 for the boys games of the comparable level?

Let's be honest, there are some varsity girls games out here that really only need two, but they get three. The JV boys at these schools could not be reasonably worked with 2, however. Those schools get 3 for JV/V B and G.

I don't think there is a simple answer to this. For example, if you have different budgets and different decision-makers deciding how to spend those budgets, it would be harder to criticize different choices as to the best place to spend the money. If it is the same decision-maker or same budget, a lot easier to infer gender bias and inequality as part of the decision.