Pay debate

[zm1283]

We are still 2-person for the large majority of our games around here, and we almost always work JV/V doubleheaders. Some schools even play three games a night on occasion and we send two people to work those. I think we would send three and split it up but we don't have enough people on most nights.

I would love to have every JV/V night be 3-person but the schools around here won't go for it yet, and I don't think we have enough officials anyway.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All Varsity is 3 person in my state, excepting the urban school here and there who want to save a little bit of money on their girls shitfests.

Profanities aside, this seems to be an obvious Title IX issue which will cost somebody a lot of money when the barristers come a callin'.

[Raymond]

I do not believe Title IX covers officiating contracts.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I do not believe Title IX covers officiting contracts.

Years ago, when conferences started going 3 man for boys basketball around here, one of the hang ups preventing everybody from doing it was that the schools did not want or feel the need to use 3 officials on girls basketball, but they were all afraid that if they didn't, they would get sued under title IX. Unfortunately title IX has far reaching implications. I have seen schools have to put lights up on their softball fields because they had them on the baseball field and were sued under title IX. I have seen D3 college conferences change their schedule because of title IX lawsuits. In the past, whenever there were women's/men's double headers, the women's game was always the early game, now some of the conferences around here alternate by game or year because a parent sued on conference under title IX and won.

[JRutledge]

It may not be specific with officiating contracts, but I believe if you do not provide the girl's with the best opportunity, you can be seen as not compliant and at the very least deal with a lawsuit to settle the issue. And most places are afraid of the lawsuit, not just the result. And if you do not pay officials the same, it might be seen as not getting the best officials to work their games. I am not so sure I agree and feel like sports like softball should not pay the same as baseball for instance, but the Title IX fear is what prevents that even being tried.

Peace

[Raymond]

For the longest time here, AAA BV was using 3 person while AAA GV only got 2 officials.

[Camron Rust]

As long as the two sides (boys/girls) are provided with the same budget, I don't think it would be a Title IX issue if they chose to spend their resources differently.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

For the longest time here, AAA BV was using 3 person while AAA GV only got 2 officials.

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

There likely isn't any, but if you have more people seeing things and calling things, it is hard to argue that more is better.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There likely isn't any, but if you have more people seeing things and calling things, it is hard to argue that more is better.

Peace

only if "seeing" and "calling" are also preventative, which they rarely are -- they are punitive.

Doesn't mean, of course, that someone won't claim that the injury could have been prevented, and it will cost time and / or money to refute that claim.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

It was that way for years. It changed when my local association self-imposed a pay cut across the board to finance a 3rd official for those games.

My point being, though, was there were never any conversations about Title IX being violated.

[egj13]

In my neck of the woods we get...wait for it...$35 for JV and $45 for V. All three man crews, always a JV/V DH and travel is a flat rate regardless of how far you drive. My assoc covers a stretch of interstate 196 miles from point A to Z...and I happen to be in the middle...average drive for me is 60 miles one way and I get a flat rate. The state sets the high-limit that we can charge as an assoc so we don't have say in it. Good thing I don't do this for the money!

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by egj13

In my neck of the woods we get...wait for it...$35 and $45 for V. All three man crews, always a JV/V DH and travel is a flat rate regardless of how far you drive. My assoc covers a stretch of interstate 196 miles from point A to Z...and I happen to be in the middle...average drive for me is 60 miles one way and I get a flat rate. The state sets the high-limit that we can charge as an assoc so we don't have say in it. Good thing I don't do this for the money!

WOW! This sounds like rec ball fees ...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

Proof is not always required for change.