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Kindly cite a rules reference for FED or NCAA that provides for such an outcome where the actions are clearly and specifically the result of momentum.
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
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Matters not one iota. 'Gather' nor player control are part of this particular equation whose only meaningful element is momentum and the effects thereof. Stop overthinking these situations. It gives the appearance you lack basic rules knowledge.
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
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Rollin', Rollin', Rollin' On The River ...
Sliding, I get. Multiple rolls? I would like this to be investigated further.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association Last edited by Camron Rust; Sat Nov 15, 2014 at 03:47pm. |
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Actually, it does. The timing of player control is absolutely relevant. If they don't have player control, there is no travel. If the player "gathers" before they land on the floor, it is a travel the instant they hit the floor. If they "gather" after being on the floor they are then allowed to slide/roll as far as momentum takes them.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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Rock 'N Roll Is Here To Stay ...
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The casebook only talks about sliding. 4.44.5 situation b: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can a1 do without violating? Ruling: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once a1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, a1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless a1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if a1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b). I'm not sure myself, so I would like some verification.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Nov 15, 2014 at 06:18pm. |
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Also, the case mentions a player diving and ending up on their back or stomach. I have never seen a person dive for something and end up on their back without rolling over to some degree.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association Last edited by Camron Rust; Sat Nov 15, 2014 at 08:11pm. |
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Exactly, but I'll admit a lot of officials (myself included) would be hard pressed not to call a travel when a player is rolling around with possession while sliding....we all know how kindly coaches take to an obscure case book ruling when they see what looks like a clear violation. They don't understand ugly ≠ violation. |
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As to most coaches, they're all obscure rules. For us, they should all be top of mind as none of the rules are printed with disappearing ink in a secret section of the Rules or Case book.
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
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Nope.
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Implication ...
You're probably right, but I still have a problem with relying on an implication as part of your citation.
Also, regarding the rollover after sliding, we've been told (no citations, sorry) for over thirty years that this had nothing to do with momentum, but rather, with gaining an advantage not afforded by the rules by rolling over and trying to keep the ball away from defenders. I have had no problem holding my whistle for a sliding player, but, to be honest, I would be hard pressed not to sound my whistle for a rolling player, especially since the casebook play (the only citation that I can find for this situation) specifies sliding, not rolling. If I allow rolling in a big play, at the end of the game, at the end of the season, with playoff implications, I would have a hard time defending myself to a coach, athletic director, my partner, or my assigner, with a caseplay book in their hands. Maybe someone can come up with an old caseplay, and settle this, probably in your favor.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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Another Look At the Videotape ...
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Are we talking about a player who is simultaneously sliding, and rolling, due to momentum? Or are we talking about a player who's momentum is causing him to simply roll without sliding? I might have a legal play in the former, but a travel in the later. How's that sound?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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Could also say drafters knew about rolling cause addressed it After momentum stopped. If they wanted player be able to roll during momentum they could have said so. Like they do in NCAA. I couldn't cite this case play to support allowing rolling in a high school game. Imo Last edited by BigCat; Sun Nov 16, 2014 at 12:25pm. |
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Then asks "what can he do without violating?" The entire assumption involved is that the player is holding the ball sliding on his back or stomach. What can he do? Answer: shoot, pass, dribble timeout. It then says in a sort of "by the way fashion". When stopped sliding he can sit up but not roll. They are just telling us what A1 can and can't do once he stops SLIDING. I don't feel by that statement they are saying/implying he can roll over while sliding. (It is not one of the four things mentioned) thx I also don't think it rules out the roll caused by momentum. It just isn't addressed because the whole play assumes only a slide. Thx |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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