What a way to start the season!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I trust your judgement Mark, but this sounds like a travel to me.

Okay, maybe six to eight feet. I was not wearing my glasses. And why would it be traveling if the sliding and rolling is because of the player's momentum from diving for the ball?

MTD, Sr.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Okay, maybe six to eight feet. I was not wearing my glasses. And why would it be traveling if the sliding and rolling is because of the player's momentum from diving for the ball?

MTD, Sr.

That's a joke about not wearing ur glasses, right? lol.

Anyway, explain the rolling part. You say sliding and rolling. Were there multiple rolls (i.e., rolling)? I think that's what AremRed is getting at. Multiple rolls sounds like a travel.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Anyway, explain the rolling part. You say sliding and rolling. Were there multiple rolls (i.e., rolling)? I think that's what AremRed is getting at. Multiple rolls sounds like a travel.

Why would it? If it was an aggressive dive for a lose ball, I could see a player tumbling more than once.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And why would it be traveling if the sliding and rolling is because of the player's momentum from diving for the ball?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why would it? If it was an aggressive dive for a lose ball, I could see a player tumbling more than once.

Mark never mentioned when the player gathered the ball or if the player rolled over again after the sliding was done.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Mark never mentioned when the player gathered the ball or if the player rolled over again after the sliding was done.

It does not matter when the player gained control of the ball nor does it matter what his body and body parts do while the player is moving do to the momentum of his drive. Once the player's momentum is spent and he comes to a stop then the traveling rule governs the player's movements.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by justacoach

Stop overthinking these situations. It gives the appearance you lack basic rules knowledge.

Ok.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It says that they can not roll over once they stop sliding....implying they can roll over before that. Otherwise, they wouldn't have qualified the restriction on rolling to apply to the time after they stop sliding.

Exactly, but I'll admit a lot of officials (myself included) would be hard pressed not to call a travel when a player is rolling around with possession while sliding....we all know how kindly coaches take to an obscure case book ruling when they see what looks like a clear violation. They don't understand ugly ≠ violation.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Exactly, but I'll admit a lot of officials (myself included) would be hard pressed not to call a travel when a player is rolling around with possession while sliding....we all know how kindly coaches take to an obscure case book ruling when they see what looks like a clear violation. They don't understand ugly ≠ violation.

Are you going to refrain from making other 'obscure' calls like backcourt, basket interference, illegal screen, or closely guarded when defenders switch, etc., all because you're concerned how coaches are gonna take it?
As to most coaches, they're all obscure rules. For us, they should all be top of mind as none of the rules are printed with disappearing ink in a secret section of the Rules or Case book.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

... a player is rolling around with possession while sliding ...

This post gave me pause to think.

Are we talking about a player who is simultaneously sliding, and rolling, due to momentum?

Or are we talking about a player who's momentum is causing him to simply roll without sliding?

I might have a legal play in the former, but a travel in the later.

How's that sound?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Mark never mentioned when the player gathered the ball or if the player rolled over again after the sliding was done.

Matters not one iota. 'Gather' nor player control are part of this particular equation whose only meaningful element is momentum and the effects thereof. Stop overthinking these situations. It gives the appearance you lack basic rules knowledge.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Matters not one iota. 'Gather' nor player control are part of this particular equation whose only meaningful element is momentum and the effects thereof. Stop overthinking these situations. It gives the appearance you lack basic rules knowledge.

Actually, it does. The timing of player control is absolutely relevant. If they don't have player control, there is no travel. If the player "gathers" before they land on the floor, it is a travel the instant they hit the floor. If they "gather" after being on the floor they are then allowed to slide/roll as far as momentum takes them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If they "gather" after being on the floor they are then allowed to slide/roll as far as momentum takes them.

Got any citations for the "roll" part of your statement? I know that he can't roll over after he stops sliding, but how about some rule, or casebook play, that states he can roll due to momentum.

The casebook only talks about sliding.

4.44.5 situation b: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can a1 do without violating? Ruling: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once a1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, a1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless a1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if a1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b).

I'm not sure myself, so I would like some verification.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Anyway, explain the rolling part. You say sliding and rolling. Were there multiple rolls (i.e., rolling)? I think that's what AremRed is getting at. Multiple rolls sounds like a travel.

Kindly cite a rules reference for FED or NCAA that provides for such an outcome where the actions are clearly and specifically the result of momentum.

[BillyMac]

Sliding, I get. Multiple rolls? I would like this to be investigated further.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by justacoach

kindly cite a rules reference for fed or ncaa that provides for such an outcome where the actions are clearly and specifically the result of momentum.

nfhs:

4.44.5 situation b: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can a1 do without violating? Ruling: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once a1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, a1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless a1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if a1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b).

ncaa:

a.r. 113. Is it traveling when a player:
(3) gains control of the ball while on the playing court and then, because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the player passes or starts a dribble before getting to his or her feet?
Ruling:
(3) no. The player may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a timeout. Once the player has the ball and is no longer sliding, he or she may not roll over. When flat on his or her back, the player may sit up without violating. When the player puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to touch the ball, it also is traveling. When a player rises to his or her feet while holding the ball, it is traveling. When a player falls to one knee while holding he ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.
(rule 4-68.6 and 4-68.1)