IAABO Refresher Exam Question #33 ...

[BillyMac]

2014 IAABO Refresher Exam (Reflects NFHS Rules)

33. Substitute B-6 enters the court while the live ball is in control of Team A and the clock is running. The officials are unaware that Team B has six players in the game. B-6 returns to the bench after which Team A requests and is granted a timeout. The scorer now informs the officials that Team B had six players on the court. The referee rules the statute of limitations to penalize has expired. Is the official correct?

Answer key states that, "No", the official was incorrect in his interpretation.

Let's go to the videotape:

10-1-6: A team shall not: Have more than five team members participating simultaneously ... (Art. 6) Penalized if discovered while being violated.

10-2-2: A substitute shall not enter the court: ART. 2 Without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters and during time-outs. PENALTY: (Section 2) Two free throws plus ball for division line throw-in. One foul for either or both requirements. Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live.

This was the rule reference given by the Refresher Exam session moderator:

10.2.2 SITUATION: During a live ball and with the clock running, substitute A6 enters the court. RULING: A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

Three questions:

1) Has the statute of limitations to penalize expired for having more than five team members participating simultaneously?

2) Has the statute of limitations to penalize expired for the substitute entering without being beckoned?

3) Can either rule (six, or unbeckoned) be enforced if the officials do not actually see the violation (in the exam question, only the scorer noticed the infraction)?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2014 IAABO Refresher Exam (Reflects NFHS Rules)

33. Substitute A-6 enters the court while the live ball is in control of Team A and the clock is ruing. The officials are unaware that Team B has six players in the game. B-6 returns to the bench after which Team A requests and is granted a timeout. The scorer now informs the officials that Team B had six players on the court. The referee rules the statute of limitations to penalize has expired. Is the official correct?

Answer key states that, "No", the official was incorrect in his interpretation.

Let's go to the videotape:

10-1-6: A team shall not: Have more than five team members participating simultaneously ... (Art. 6) Penalized if discovered while being violated.

10-2-2: A substitute shall not enter the court: ART. 2 Without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters and during time-outs. PENALTY: (Section 2) Two free throws plus ball for division line throw-in. One foul for either or both requirements. Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live.

This was the rule reference given by the Refresher Exam session moderator:

10.2.2 SITUATION: During a live ball and with the clock running, substitute A6 enters the court. RULING: A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

Three questions:

1) Has the statute of limitations to penalize expired for having more than five team members participating simultaneously?

2) Has the statute of limitations to penalize expired for the substitute entering without being beckoned?

3) Can either rule (six, or unbeckoned) be enforced if the officials do not actually see the violation (in the exam question, only the scorer noticed the infraction)?

Should the beginning say substitute B 6 enters the court .... Then B6 returns? Instead of A6 enters?


1.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Should the beginning say substitute B 6 enters the court .... Then B6 returns? Instead of A6 enters?
.

Fixed it. Thanks.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2014 IAABO Refresher Exam (Reflects NFHS Rules)

33. Substitute A-6 enters the court while the live ball is in control of Team A and the clock is ruing. The officials are unaware that Team B has six players in the game. B-6 returns to the bench after which Team A requests and is granted a timeout. The scorer now informs the officials that Team B had six players on the court. The referee rules the statute of limitations to penalize has expired. Is the official correct?

Answer key states that, "No", the official was incorrect in his interpretation.

Let's go to the videotape:

10-1-6: A team shall not: Have more than five team members participating simultaneously ... (Art. 6) Penalized if discovered while being violated.

10-2-2: A substitute shall not enter the court: ART. 2 Without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters and during time-outs. PENALTY: (Section 2) Two free throws plus ball for division line throw-in. One foul for either or both requirements. Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live.

This was the rule reference given by the Refresher Exam session moderator:

10.2.2 SITUATION: During a live ball and with the clock running, substitute A6 enters the court. RULING: A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

Three questions:

1) Has the statute of limitations to penalize expired for having more than five team members participating simultaneously?

2) Has the statute of limitations to penalize expired for the substitute entering without being beckoned?

3) Can either rule (six, or unbeckoned) be enforced if the officials do not actually see the violation (in the exam question, only the scorer noticed the infraction)?

1. It has expired. It must be discovered while there is 6 in game. The 6th player was off the floor. Nothing in the play suggests that anyone "discovered" or knew that there were 6 players until after he was off floor.

2. No. The substitute entered during a live ball. The definition you cited doesn't address this. If the ball is already live when he runs in you can't catch it " before it becomes live." Thus the case book play. Make it that you have to catch it during the first dead ball.

3. Need to think more on this one. Eat dinner. Will get back to it....

[gslefeb]

My understanding is that the scorer is an official member of the crew. Therefore, since the scorer supplied the knowledge it was "known" when it occurred.

This was on the 2012 refresher exam (question 64); answer no
10-*‐2-*‐1 and 2 Penalty (from 2012 book)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

My understanding is that the scorer is an official member of the crew. Therefore, since the scorer supplied the knowledge it was "known" when it occurred.

This was on the 2012 refresher exam (question 64); answer no
10-*‐2-*‐1 and 2 Penalty (from 2012 book)

The scorer pointed it out to the officials after 6th guy was off the floor and after timeout was called. It doesn't say he saw it or knew it when it was being done....he may have only discovered it by looking at his book when time was out. Thus, didn't discover it when it was being violated. Nothing in the play shows he knew it when being violated....

[SNIPERBBB]

Game officials are the referee and umpire(s) assist ed by an official scorer and timer.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BigCat

1. It has expired. It must be discovered while there is 6 in game. The 6th player was off the floor. Nothing in the play suggests that anyone "discovered" or knew that there were 6 players until after he was off floor.

2. No. The substitute entered during a live ball. The definition you cited doesn't address this. If the ball is already live when he runs in you can't catch it " before it becomes live." Thus the case book play. Make it that you have to catch it during the first dead ball.

3. Need to think more on this one. Eat dinner. Will get back to it....

3. The "discovered" term means we the officials have to discover the problem. We do the penalizing not the scorer. The six in game rule says must be discovered "while being violated." If scorer sees it he can hit horn. Then we see 6 and learn of it while they still have six on court. we have to see this one to discover it "while being violated". The scorer telling us they had 6 on the floor 5 minutes ago isn't us discovering it while being violated.

The other play is an illegal substitution. The main rule says it must be discovered before ball comes live. substitue comes in without reporting. For some reason all zebras are huddling And don't see it. Scorer tells us this before we hand ball to inbounder. Scorer told us so we discovered it before became live. We discovered it by talking to the scorer before it became live. This one don't think have to see.

The play above. Ball is live already when player runs onto floor without reporting. Case book rule says penalize if discovered before ball becomes live after the first dead ball. Again, I think we can "discover" this by talking to the scorer before the dead ball is over. Scorer can bring our attention to correctable errors. None of zebras may see guy run on floor. I think they can rely on scorer for this one. The key on this is learning from scorer before that dead ball ends. Then we have discovered it before penalizing time frame expires.

Let me know what you think when you get a chance.. Thx