Dirbbling FIBA rule interpretation

[APG]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I don't think this play is in the case books.

...

Again, if I'm wrong and there's a case book play please let me know. Thx

NFHS: Casebook play 9.5

NCAA Men's: A.R. 105

NBA:

9. Player A1 passes the ball and it hits his backboard. May Player A1 be the first to touch the ball?

Yes. A player may be the first to touch his own pass if the ball touches his basket ring, backboard or another player.
RULE 10 - SECTION XIII - g

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by APG

NFHS: Casebook play 9.5

NCAA Men's: A.R. 105

NBA:

9. Player A1 passes the ball and it hits his backboard. May Player A1 be the first to touch the ball?

Yes. A player may be the first to touch his own pass if the ball touches
his basket ring, backboard or another player.
RULE 10 - SECTION XIII - g

Thx for the info. The nfhs casebook play cited says this is legal because a player's own backboard is part of his teams equipment...and can be used...thx again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The nfhs casebook play cited says this is legal because a player's own backboard is part of his teams equipment...and can be used...

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

Question: In (a), can said player legally start a dribble?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

Question: In (a), can said player legally start a dribble?

as you can probably tell from my earlier post, i don't think the rules definitions as written support the conclusion reached in play A. But since the exact play is in the case book, even without much support in a particular rule, i would allow the player to dribble after the catch. If you let him catch it under these rules, then there's no reason not to let him dribble…based on this play, the NFHS if asked would say he could dribble…This is the best i have on the question. I don't have any other rule cite…


It would be nice if rule 4 said any ball thrown by a player against his own backboard is a try or maybe better, say a player may throw the ball off his backboard after ending a dribble, be first to catch or touch it and may then dribble shoot or pass. that would make this clear but as someone else said in a different thread, the rules just don't cover every scenario. if they did the book would be a lot thicker.

i obviously missed/forgot about the case book play earlier so maybe i am missing rule support for play A. let me know if i did. thx

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Question: In (a), can said player legally start a dribble?

NFHS 9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player

Have any of these three things happened?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player

Have any of these three things happened?

No, and I do understand that under the rules as written he should not be able to dribble. What I am saying or trying to say is that under the rules as written I don't think he should even be able to catch his pass off of the backboard. He has already dribbled, he throws a pass off board, takes a few steps and catches the ball without it touching anyone else. Under the rule definitions I see that as a violation...

But the case book says he can catch it. i'm asking if there is rule support for the catch off of the board. Something more than the casebook play. There could be I'm just not seeing it.

If the NFHS is going to let him catch the ball when the rules, in my opinion say he shouldn't be able to, then I guess it is my frustration saying let him dribble it also.

Anyway, I'm looking for something other than the case book play, something in rules, which allows him to catch the ball off the board after dribbling etc. thx for your reply.

[SNIPERBBB]

Other than a slam dunk contest, your going to rule a pass against the his/her backboard as a try.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

You're going to rule a pass against the his/her backboard as a try.

Agree in theory, but how about a NFHS rule citation?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Anyway, I'm looking for something other than the case book play, something in rules, which allows him to catch the ball off the board after dribbling etc. thx for your reply.

You're not going to find it. Sometimes, the NFHS alters the rules by using case plays. In this case, it's a one-off, and changing the rules would likely affect plays they don't want included, so they just use a case play. I wouldn't use the logic they give for this play on any other play.

Sometimes, they try fixing inadvertent changes with case plays and interpretations. When they change a rule for one purpose, and realize later that it affected other things they didn't want affected (see above), rather than try to find another way to change the rule without affecting the other plays, they simply leave the rule changed and issue a case play that "fixes" the problem.

Only it doesn't.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree in theory, but how about a NFHS rule citation?

I also agree. Once "deemed" a try your covered by rule to let him catch dribble etc. I may deem every thrown ball that hits backboard a try. Even when they are obviously a pass...I understand the practical way to deal with it.

The play we are talking about though says it is a pass. The play is not deeming it a try. It's says it is ok because it is part of teams equipment...I don't see where that comes from in the actual rules is all I'm saying.
Thx for replying.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're not going to find it. Sometimes, the NFHS alters the rules by using case plays. In this case, it's a one-off, and changing the rules would likely affect plays they don't want included, so they just use a case play. I wouldn't use the logic they give for this play on any other play.

Sometimes, they try fixing inadvertent changes with case plays and interpretations. When they change a rule for one purpose, and realize later that it affected other things they didn't want affected (see above), rather than try to find another way to change the rule without affecting the other plays, they simply leave the rule changed and issue a case play that "fixes" the problem.

Only it doesn't.

I agree completely. Thx

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

It's says it is OK because it is part of teams equipment.

So ... if I'm a dribbler, and I end my dribble, I could the bounce the ball off my headband (equipment), allow the ball to fall to the floor, and legally pick the ball up. Can I now legally start a new dribble?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So ... if I'm a dribbler, and I end my dribble, I could the bounce the ball off my headband (equipment), allow the ball to fall to the floor, and legally pick the ball up. Can I now legally start a new dribble?

Ask Mary

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So ... if I'm a dribbler, and I end my dribble, I could the bounce the ball off my headband (equipment), allow the ball to fall to the floor, and legally pick the ball up. Can I now legally start a new dribble?

IF you end your dribble, then pass the ball off your headband and it bounces away I'm going to call a violation when you pick it up. As I said earlier I don't know where it comes from or why they declared it was ok to catch a pass off the board after ending the dribble. It's not in the rule book and doesn't make sense to say "equipment." I will allow the catch off the backboard because the exact play is in the casebook. Your headband play isn't...yet.

P.s. Doesn't say much for your teammates that you have to pass it off your head rather than to them😊

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Doesn't say much for your teammates that you have to pass it off your head rather than to them.

Me, to the player, "That's using your head".