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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 08, 2007, 11:46pm
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FIBA Rule Interpretation

So with us Canadians going to FIBA this year, I've started studying a little early, and I've hit a stump.

Rule 4
Article 8.8 & 8.9

8.8
If a foul is committed when or just before the game clock signla sounds for the end of playing time, any eventual free throw(s) shall be taken after the end of playing time.

8.9
"If an extra period is required as a a result of this free throw(s) then all fouls that are committed after the end of playing time shall be considered to have occurred during an interval of play and the free throw(s) shall be administered before the beginning of the extra period."

I understand 8.8, but 8.9 confuses me.

I've tried to create a scenario to help me explain this to myself.....

While the horn is going A1 fouled B1 with the score @ 68-70, and if B1 scored both free throws making the score 70-70.(So were going to overtime right??)
But while B1 is shooting, A2 fouls B3, and now B3 is shooting. If B3 only makes one shot and the score is 71-70....are we still going to overtime????

Anyone want to help me?
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 12:44am
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I have no idea about FIBA rules, but I believe that you have designed the test scenario correctly and are asking the right questions. It seems that you need to probe not only the timing of the second foul, but maybe even what happens depending upon the type of this foul.

Therefore, you may also wish to write a situation in which the second foul is a technical foul (committed by either a player or a coach) and takes place: 1) prior to the administration of the FTs for the first foul; 2) during the admin of the FTs; 3) or following the completion of the FTs.

Under NFHS rules the FTs for the T would determine the need for an extra period in 1 and 2 and would be considered part of the fourth quarter, but would begin the extra period in 3. Only in case 3 would an extra period be played if any of the FTs for the T were successful.

I'm curious to learn if FIBA handles this differently.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 02:49am
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You will still have to go to overtime, but with any fouls technical or otherwise they will have to be dealt with the appropriate penalties before the OT starts. For example if red coach gets a technical for inappropriate comments, blue will get 2 shots but no possession before the OT stars; if red player gets disqualified, then blue team has the shots before OT starts. Teigan the scenario you have made is correct but the shots for the foul by A2 will have to be taken after the scoresheet is checked and approved by the officials. Don't forget that you do have an interval of 2 minutes before OT starts, Cheers
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 05:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teigan
8.8
If a foul is committed..... just before the game clock signal sounds for the end of playing time, any eventual free throw(s) shall be taken after the end of playing time.
Gee, wouldn't you put some time back on the clock?

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Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 10:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Gee, wouldn't you put some time back on the clock?

You know where you're going, right?

Oh, wait, I see by your location you're already there.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 10:50am
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While the horn is going A1 fouled B1 with the score @ 68-70, and if B1 scored both free throws making the score 70-70.(So were going to overtime right??)
But while B1 is shooting, A2 fouls B3, and now B3 is shooting. If B3 only makes one shot and the score is 71-70....are we still going to overtime????

I guess that A2's foul to B3 was like unsportsmanlike/disqualifying foul. If it was, let's put it aside at this moment and focus on B1's free throws. According to the FIBA rules, There'll be two results, but A2's flagrant behavior would be noted at the back of the scoresheet by the referee and the case shall be reported to the organizer by the commissioner within an hour in both situations below:

1. B1 missed one or both free throws, the game ended and team A winned. (A2's flagrant behavior would be noted at the back of the scoresheet by the referee and the case shall be reported to the organizer by the commissioner within an hour)

2. B1 made both free throws. Game ended by a tie. Since A2's flagrant behavior happened after the signal, and the game was not finished because B1 made both free throws, his unsportsmanlike/disqualifying/technical foul was then called and it was treated as a foul at an interval. Let's just say A2's foul was a technical foul (two free throws and a center-line throw-in), then team B will have two free throws and a center-line throw-in, the team which was supposed to have the throw-in following the alternating possession at the beginning of the extra period does not lose its next possession for a jumpball situation (the arrow does not change).
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 10:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
You know where you're going, right?

Oh, wait, I see by your location you're already there.
I thought that I'd save everybody the trouble.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 12:20pm
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Key word: "considered"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teigan
8.9
"If an extra period is required as a a result of this free throw(s) then all fouls that are committed after the end of playing time shall be considered to have occurred during an interval of play and the free throw(s) shall be administered before the beginning of the extra period."
The language used suggests that, because the free throws sent the game to OT [the 4th quarter being over] a new interval of play has been created. Thus, for the record, the free throws were taken before the OT, not during the 4th quarter.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 09, 2007, 05:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teigan
So with us Canadians going to FIBA this year, I've started studying a little early, and I've hit a stump.

Rule 4
Article 8.8 & 8.9

8.8
If a foul is committed when or just before the game clock signla sounds for the end of playing time, any eventual free throw(s) shall be taken after the end of playing time.

8.9
"If an extra period is required as a a result of this free throw(s) then all fouls that are committed after the end of playing time shall be considered to have occurred during an interval of play and the free throw(s) shall be administered before the beginning of the extra period."

I understand 8.8, but 8.9 confuses me.

I've tried to create a scenario to help me explain this to myself.....

While the horn is going A1 fouled B1 with the score @ 68-70, and if B1 scored both free throws making the score 70-70.(So were going to overtime right??)
But while B1 is shooting, A2 fouls B3, and now B3 is shooting. If B3 only makes one shot and the score is 71-70....are we still going to overtime????

Anyone want to help me?
There can be no foul after the sound of the final horn. Article 8.9 has been written in order to take care of unsporting behavior after the end of regulation.

If there are free throws resulting from a foul just on the final horn (and there has been no timing error), the free throws have to be shot anyway, with the lane cleared.

Suppose there is an unsporting behavior of a coach or player in the meantime (i.e., between the horn and the end of the free throws). This behavior cannot be penalized in the game, unless the free throws make the score even. In this case the game must go to overtime and the technical foul for the unsporting behavior can be assessed during an interval of play, hence penalized before the start of the overtime.

In the other cases (i.e., the score is not even after the FT), the unsporting behavior cannot be penalized in the game, which has ended, and will only be reported to the proper authority.

In general, it's impossible to assess penalties after the final horn, even if the scoresheet has not been already signed and the officials are still on the court. Any improper behavior must be reported, though.

Please, I'm only explaining FIBA rules, I'm not their author. Don't shoot at me. But no, Mark, I don't surrender.

Ciao
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Old Thu Jul 12, 2007, 06:23pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by eg-italy
Please, I'm only explaining FIBA rules, I'm not their author. Don't shoot at me. But no, Mark, I don't surrender.
I thought you guys had 6.72 quarters per game.
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Old Thu Jul 12, 2007, 06:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
I thought you guys had 6.72 quarters per game.
Mark, you're confused. It's 6.72 quarters per dollar.
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Old Thu Jul 12, 2007, 08:57pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Mark, you're confused. It's 6.72 quarters per dollar.
But they're metric dollars - right? Er, I mean, eh?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 13, 2007, 07:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
I thought you guys had 6.72 quarters per game.
No, it's you that have 1.34 dollars per euro. And 5280 feet per mile or .00057 miles per yard. I know, it is for the children, so that they can master division and multiplication.

Our games have, approximately, four quarters. There's just a tiny bit left, which sometimes needs to be taken care of, as in the rule under discussion.

Ciao
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