Block/PC (video)

[JetMetFan]

What got me thinking on this one is the L didn't just signal immediately, he signaled first. Now, it may look that way to me because the L went up with a fist while the C went up with a preliminary (bad idea...) but it appears as though he went first.

Those who have been to NCAA-W camps already know the hierarchy we're being reminded of this summer: L has first crack on drives into his/her primary from the T and drives down the middle of the lane. This one was in the C's primary and as Camron pointed out the defender came from the C's primary.

[Pantherdreams]

I think the L is locked in on the post play and only puts in air on it because he realizes there was a crash and someone needs it.

I'm ok with the get from the C in this case though I don't think its the right call.

I've got PC all the way. Ball carrier has no expectation of time and space in real time and slow mo defender gets to LGP.

[Camron Rust]

I'm really surprised at the number who are indicating they have a PC here when the defender never stops moving forward. She almost gets there, but not quite....and I even tend to call charges more than many.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm really surprised at the number who are indicating they have a PC here when the defender never stops moving forward. She almost gets there, but not quite....and I even tend to call charges more than many.

Too much of a nit to pick for me on this play. But I also don't have a problem with her call on this play. One of those 50/50 plays.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm really surprised at the number who are indicating they have a PC here when the defender never stops moving forward. She almost gets there, but not quite....and I even tend to call charges more than many.

I think the defender does actually stop. And if they don't, in that close of a play I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the defender. We penalize defenders too often when they are not in illegal positions.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm really surprised at the number who are indicating they have a PC here when the defender never stops moving forward. She almost gets there, but not quite....and I even tend to call charges more than many.

I've got a charge in slow motion and in real time.

Not sure what you have got that I don't. Her feet are down. Her body and contact to it happen inside the space she is legally occupying.

She can stand there and do the hula so long as she's in LGP and the contact doesn't occur outside of the vertical space she's entitled to.

There is no requirement that her chest/torso be stationary. Just inside the space she's legally entitled to and that's determined by her feet? Am I missing something?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I've got a charge in slow motion and in real time.

Not sure what you have got that I don't. Her feet are down. Her body and contact to it happen inside the space she is legally occupying.

She can stand there and do the hula so long as she's in LGP and the contact doesn't occur outside of the vertical space she's entitled to.

There is no requirement that her chest/torso be stationary. Just inside the space she's legally entitled to and that's determined by her feet? Am I missing something?

While we can certainly disagree on this specific case (I had a block in real time and am even more convinced by the slow-mo), I do think you are also missing something.

The feet being down is not all that is required. The body is only legal if and when it is over the feet and not moving toward the opponent at the time of contact. The requirements on the feet are only momentary and only one of the requirements for LGP. The requirements on the body are constant. The defender can't be moving toward the opponent when contact occurs. And that is referring to the part of the defender that contacts the opponent....the torso.

She must get the body over the feet before she has that position and must stop all forward movement. If she is still moving forward with the torso, she is not yet in that space. Otherwise, a player could extend their feet out to the side/front/etc. to claim the space and bring their body in later.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm really surprised at the number who are indicating they have a PC here when the defender never stops moving forward. She almost gets there, but not quite....and I even tend to call charges more than many.

I'm with Camron on this one. I had a block in real time. It is really close in slow mo but I'm sticking with my original call. As someone stated earlier it is a 50/50 play. So my question is how has the crew called all 50/50 block/charge plays all game (if there were any)?

I think the biggest problem with this play is that the calling official signals that it is a non shooting foul (1&1). This is clearly a shooting foul and the other 2 partners should bring this information to the calling official.

Also, I don't think the Lead is refereeing the post players (not much there to referee). He is position adjusting to see the ball at the top of the key.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

This is clearly a shooting foul.

Clearly? Maybe it's worth discussing, but "clearly"? I may, I said may, be inclined to agree but I don't think that it's as clear as you believe it to be. Like I said, it's certainly worth discussing.

"The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball
comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and
is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm,
foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket".

[JetMetFan]

By virtue of being the guy who edited the clip I also can frame-by-frame the play pretty easily. I can post that later if anyone wants to see but suffice to say I still don't see the defender doing anything wrong.

After W23 established LGP and while she's straightening up within her vertical plane B13 enters W23's vertical space and contacts her torso. Essentially, W23 doesn't have the chance to create contact because B13 creates contact first.

If W23 was leaning forward into B13 outside her - meaning W23's - vertical plane I would agree with calling a block.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

After W23 established LGP and while she's straightening up within her vertical plane B13 enters W23's vertical space and contacts her torso. Essentially, W23 doesn't have the chance to create contact because B13 creates contact first.

If W23 was leaning forward into B13 outside her - meaning W23's - vertical plane I would agree with calling a block.

There is no such thing as straightening up with a vertical plane. She is either moving forward or not. A defender in their vertical plane who is moving forward is, by rule, not legal. By the very fact you're saying she was straitening up in her vertical plan, you are essentially saying her torso was indeed moving forward.

[onetime1]

Looks like an easy PC call to me. How much better in LGP can the defender get? It appears the offensive player slams right through the defensive player. I would ship this the other way and never give it a second thought./

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Clearly? Maybe it's worth discussing, but "clearly"? I may, I said may, be inclined to agree but I don't think that it's as clear as you believe it to be. Like I said, it's certainly worth discussing.

"The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball
comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and
is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm,
foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket".

Is this a High School or College game? Why does 'C' raise both hands on the whistle. The dribbler gathered the ball, stepped and then the foul.. Player is in the Act of Shooting. Why are we penalizing the shooter and saying 'no shot'? I know the Act of Shooting rule is slightly different from HS to College.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Is this a High School or College game? Why does 'C' raise both hands on the whistle. The dribbler gathered the ball, stepped and then the foul.. Player is in the Act of Shooting. Why are we penalizing the shooter and saying 'no shot'? I know the Act of Shooting rule is slightly different from HS to College.

It's an NCAA-W game and the rule is the same for NCAA-W and NFHS. She raised both hands because she was making a preliminary signal for a block...obviously not thinking there would be another whistle since the play was in her primary but such is what happens when your partners - in the case the L - ball-watch.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Player is in the Act of Shooting.

In my high school game, I will probably decide that she is in the act of shooting, but I'll be prepared to take some polite grief from the opposing coach. This is almost one of those almost in the act of shooting situations, and when confronted with such situations, I tend to err on the side of shooting.