kick ball or nothing?

[Coach Bill]

Ball gets thrown from the frontcourt to the backcourt by the offense. As far as I could tell no one on the defense touched it, and the offensive player knowing that it was gonna be backcourt, just stopped the ball with his foot. Put his foot on top of the ball like he was playing soccer. Then, everyone waited for the whistle that never came. The ref signaled a "tip", and the player picked the ball up and dribbled back up court. I had a pretty good angle and I'm pretty sure it should have been a backcourt violation. But, even if it's not a backcourt violation, it's at least a kick ball, right? Or, is merely touching the ball with your foot to stop it legal?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Ball gets thrown from the frontcourt to the backcourt by the offense. As far as I could tell no one on the defense touched it, and the offensive player knowing that it was gonna be backcourt, just stopped the ball with his foot. Put his foot on top of the ball like he was playing soccer. Then, everyone waited for the whistle that never came. The ref signaled a "tip", and the player picked the ball up and dribbled back up court. I had a pretty good angle and I'm pretty sure it should have been a backcourt violation. But, even if it's not a backcourt violation, it's at least a kick ball, right? Or, is merely touching the ball with your foot to stop it legal?

Yes...that was a kick.

[Nevadaref]

100% correct, coach.
Deliberately playing the ball with the leg is a kicking violation.

Kick ball. Additionally, if there was a tip signal to be given it should have happened long before the players foot got near the ball.

[coach41]

A simliar question on a kicked ball but not exactly as the original poster had it:

I was playing pickup ball with friends today and there was a low pass that got past me. It was rolling on the ground in such a way that there was no way I was going to be able to save it with my hands without diving. We were playing outdoors and no way I'm diving on concrete!

HOWEVER, I was able to outrun the ball a couple of steps before it got to the sideline. I never extended my leg or anything but just let the ball bounce off my leg and then I picked it up. My friends were saying it was illegal.

I'm a official and know the "intent" rule. So theoretically, my friends were right. But conceptually, I let the ball bounce off my body.

What do people think? Kicked ball or no kicked ball?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by coach41

A simliar question on a kicked ball but not exactly as the original poster had it:

I was playing pickup ball with friends today and there was a low pass that got past me. It was rolling on the ground in such a way that there was no way I was going to be able to save it with my hands without diving. We were playing outdoors and no way I'm diving on concrete!

HOWEVER, I was able to outrun the ball a couple of steps before it got to the sideline. I never extended my leg or anything but just let the ball bounce off my leg and then I picked it up. My friends were saying it was illegal.

I'm a official and know the "intent" rule. So theoretically, my friends were right. But conceptually, I let the ball bounce off my body.

What do people think? Kicked ball or no kicked ball?

Illegal. You deliberately put your foot in the path of the ball in order to play the ball. The fact that you got there before the ball is immaterial. If you had been there before the ball was thrown thar direction (or were on an established path) , you would be legal. It is all about intent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is all about intent.

9-4 Note: Kicking the ball is a violation only when it is an intentional act; accidentally striking
the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.

4.29 SITUATION A: During A1's attempt to pass to A2, B1 (a) intentionally uses
his/her thigh to deflect the pass; (b) intentionally kicks the ball with his/her foot; or
(c) has the ball accidentally hit his/her lower leg. RULING: In (a) and (b), there
is a kicking violation and Team A will receive the ball out of bounds nearest the
violation. In (c), the ball remains live and there is no violation. (9-4)

4.29 SITUATION B: A1 has the ball for a throw-in. A1 rolls the ball to A2 who
stops the ball by putting his/her foot on top of it, then bends over and picks up
the ball. RULING: Kicking violation on A2 for intentionally striking the ball with
his/her foot. (9-4)

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by coach41

A simliar question on a kicked ball but not exactly as the original poster had it:

I was playing pickup ball with friends today and there was a low pass that got past me. It was rolling on the ground in such a way that there was no way I was going to be able to save it with my hands without diving. We were playing outdoors and no way I'm diving on concrete!

HOWEVER, I was able to outrun the ball a couple of steps before it got to the sideline. I never extended my leg or anything but just let the ball bounce off my leg and then I picked it up. My friends were saying it was illegal.

I'm a official and know the "intent" rule. So theoretically, my friends were right. But conceptually, I let the ball bounce off my body.

What do people think? Kicked ball or no kicked ball?

*C'mon on Coach#41...don't be disingenuous with us in here

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by coach41

A simliar question on a kicked ball but not exactly as the original poster had it:

I was playing pickup ball with friends today and there was a low pass that got past me. It was rolling on the ground in such a way that there was no way I was going to be able to save it with my hands without diving. We were playing outdoors and no way I'm diving on concrete!

HOWEVER, I was able to outrun the ball a couple of steps before it got to the sideline. I never extended my leg or anything but just let the ball bounce off my leg and then I picked it up. My friends were saying it was illegal.

I'm a official and know the "intent" rule. So theoretically, my friends were right. But conceptually, I let the ball bounce off my body.

What do people think? Kicked ball or no kicked ball?

Here's the way I look at it: Your leg wasn't an "innocent bystander" in the process

[BktBallRef]

I disagree. If his foot is on the floor and the ball rolls against it, that's not a kick. it makes no difference how long his foot has been there, as long as it's there before it's touched.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I disagree. If his foot is on the floor and the ball rolls against it, that's not a kick. it makes no difference how long his foot has been there, as long as it's there before it's touched.

I can see your point, but I'd like to pay Devil's Advocate.

If a player observes, in advance, that a rolling ball is about to strike his already on the floor leg, and said player doesn't move is leg out of the path of the ball, is that not intent to strike the ball with one's leg? Or is this a case of the ball striking a leg rather than a case of the leg striking the ball?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can see your point, but I'd like to pay Devil's Advocate.

If a player observes, in advance, that a rolling ball is about to strike his already on the floor leg, and said player doesn't move is leg out of the path of the ball, is that not intent to strike the ball with one's leg? Or is this a case of the ball striking a leg rather than a case of the leg striking the ball?

A kick must be a positive action. A player is not obligated to move this leg to avoid contact. And it is about intent. It is possible for the foot to be neither on the floor nor stationary and still not be a violation. The foot of a running player strikes/is struck by the ball. Play on. Intent must be judged.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A kick must be a positive action. A player is not obligated to move this leg to avoid contact. And it is about intent. It is possible for the foot to be neither on the floor nor stationary and still not be a violation. The foot of a running player strikes/is struck by the ball. Play on. Intent must be judged.

Likewise, a stationary foot/leg is not necessarily legal. If a player ddliberately places it in the path of the ball in order to stop the ball, it is a violation. There is noting in the rule excusing the player if they intentionally do it quick enough to get it back in contact with floor.

If the foot is in position before the ball is thrown, then it would be legal as the player throwing the ball threw it to the foot.