Player goes out of bound & touches the ball

[dsavitzky]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

#1) Assuming you mean B1 touches the ball without ever coming back inbounds, it would be an immediate OOB violation when B1 touches the ball in all of those scenarios.

#2) There is no requirement to have both feet inbounds by the NFHS, so I'm not sure what you are asking.

2a) OOB has nothing to do with this play, only whether or not we have an illegal dribble depending on factors that are unknown in your scenario.

2b) Legal

Wouldn't (2b) be illegal? It reads as if player control never ends in the scenario. So if the player steps out of bounds while there's player control, isn't it an OOB violation even if he's not actually touching the ball when he's out?

Originally Posted by dsavitzky

Wouldn't (2b) be illegal? It reads as if player control never ends in the scenario. So if the player steps out of bounds while there's player control, isn't it an OOB violation even if he's not actually touching the ball when he's out?

It's an interrupted dribble. No player control, player can go out of bounds by accident and come back in as long as he's not gaining an advantage (going around a screen, etc.). He can also continue his dribble, provided he establishes location in-bounds.

[dsavitzky]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's an interrupted dribble. No player control, player can go out of bounds by accident and come back in as long as he's not gaining an advantage (going around a screen, etc.). He can also continue his dribble, provided he establishes location in-bounds.

If you consider it an interrupted dribble. But he specifically said "not ending his dribble" in the original scenario.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by dsavitzky

If you consider it an interrupted dribble. But he specifically said "not ending his dribble" in the original scenario.

Terminology is important.
An interrupted dribble hasn't ended. Allowing the ball to come to rest in one hand, touching it simultaneously with two hands, or losing control because of a touch by an opposing player all end a dribble.
The author wrote what he did to distinguish between the player ending his dribble and then releasing ball into the court before falling out and the player simply pushing or batting the ball with one hand then stepping out.
Whether there is player control or not is a judgment call.

[potato]

under the 1st scenario, would B1 be called a goaltending should he jumped from out of bounds to interrupt the ball when it's going downwards, or will it still be counted as out of bound A ball?

so in both NFHS & NBA, can i say that if the player established possession of the ball while trying to save it throws the ball back in, it shall be considered a pass thus the player may not be the 1st to touch the ball even if he's already inbound?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by potato

under the 1st scenario, would B1 be called a goaltending should he jumped from out of bounds to interrupt the ball when it's going downwards, or will it still be counted as out of bound A ball?

so in both NFHS & NBA, can i say that if the player established possession of the ball while trying to save it throws the ball back in, it shall be considered a pass thus the player may not be the 1st to touch the ball even if he's already inbound?

1. There is no rule which covers a player committing simultaneous violations. There is an officiating principle to penalize the more severe of the infringements. So if this ever happened, I would penalize the goaltending. However, since the endline is four feet behind the plane of the backboard, I doubt that such will occur. I can envision an otherwise legally blocked shot with a shooter in the corner and a defender jumping from out of bounds.

2. There is no rule preventing a player from retrieving his own errant pass at the NCAA and NFHS levels. It would simply be a dribble if allowed to strike the floor before the catch. If the player had already dribbled, then this second dribble would constitute a violation. If the ball does not contact the floor and the player has moved his pivot, the ruling is an illegal dribble violation. Otherwise, the action described is perfectly legal. Don't get caught in the "self pass" myth!

[APG]

Originally Posted by potato

under the 1st scenario, would B1 be called a goaltending should he jumped from out of bounds to interrupt the ball when it's going downwards, or will it still be counted as out of bound A ball?

so in both NFHS & NBA, can i say that if the player established possession of the ball while trying to save it throws the ball back in, it shall be considered a pass thus the player may not be the 1st to touch the ball even if he's already inbound?

If a player is pulling off your first scenario, he should be considering representing his country in the long jump. To answer your scenario, a player would be committing two violations at the same time...pick the more severe of the two, award the basket and continue otherwise.

As to your second scenario, you are mixing up an NBA interpretation with the other rule sets. Just to be clear, the interpretation I gave out earlier is SOLELY UNDER NBA RULES (capitalization and bolding to emphasize this point).

Under NFHS/NCAA rules, the act of gaining possession and throwing it back in should be considered the start of a dribble...and penalize or allow as appropriate. It should also be pointed out that one can not, by definition by the ball to oneself.

[potato]

well if the player is around the baseline & tall enough it should be possible to goaltend a ball going down towards the basket but i get your point.

for scenario 2, what if the player already dribbling, ball going out of bounds, player jumps out to save the ball? i'm guessing the way he saves the ball will determine whether he's allowed to be the 1st to touch the ball when he's inbound? say if he catches the ball & throws it back in and touches it again, it'd be a violation (double dribble), and if simply push/swap the ball in without holding/palming the ball he can be the 1st the touch the ball & continue the dribble or catches the ball when he gets back inbound? but any chance it be treated as a fumble after a dribble & player still allowed to be the 1st to secure the ball?

Originally Posted by APG

If a player is pulling off your first scenario, he should be considering representing his country in the long jump. To answer your scenario, a player would be committing two violations at the same time...pick the more severe of the two, award the basket and continue otherwise.

As to your second scenario, you are mixing up an NBA interpretation with the other rule sets. Just to be clear, the interpretation I gave out earlier is SOLELY UNDER NBA RULES (capitalization and bolding to emphasize this point).

Under NFHS/NCAA rules, the act of gaining possession and throwing it back in should be considered the start of a dribble...and penalize or allow as appropriate. It should also be pointed out that one can not, by definition by the ball to oneself.