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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 10:40am
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Traveling ?

Please comment on these plays as being ruled: 'Travel' or not?

(1) A1 has the ball (w/o starting a dribble) and is guarded by B1. A1 throws the ball over B1's head and then starts a dribble - Legal? I say No - travel !

(2) A1 has the ball (w/o starting a dribble) and attempts a pass to A2, who is not looking. A1 then goes and retrieves the ball - Legal? I say No - travel !

(3) A1 has the ball (w/o starting a dribble) and attempts a pass to A2; yet fumbles the ball as the ball is passed. A1 then retrieves the ball - Legal? I say Yes, since its a 'fumble' !

(4) A1 in the post ( w/o a previous dribble ) dribbles the ball w/two hands and then picks it up to attempt a 'shot' - Legal? I say 'yes'...a few have stated that this is a 'double-dribble' - wrong !

Thanks ahead of time for the replies !
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Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 10:48am
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Your first two examples, why would these be illegal? There is nothing in the rules that says how you start a dribble. And if you throw the ball and no one gets it but you, that is a start of a dribble. Nothing about that is illegal.

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Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 10:49am
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1) Not enough information to answer. If A1 releases the ball without lifting the pivot foot and does not catch the ball after it goes over B1's head, then it's legal.

2) Not enough information to answer. If A1 releases the ball before lifting the pivot foot, and does not retrieve the ball until after it hits the floor, then it's legal.

(In both 1 and 2, I'm assuming A1 moved the pivot foot in the subsequent action to get to the ball).

3) Agreed

4) Agreed
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Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 11:00am
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Seems you're trying to go by "feel" or your personal sense of "fairness" (or worse, what you've heard on the playground or on TV.

Instead, ask yourself - in 1 and 2 ... what rule was broken? Then go look for it.
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Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 11:23am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd41flpk View Post
Please comment on these plays as being ruled: 'Travel' or not?

(1) A1 has the ball (w/o starting a dribble) and is guarded by B1. A1 throws the ball over B1's head and then starts a dribble - Legal? I say No - travel !

(2) A1 has the ball (w/o starting a dribble) and attempts a pass to A2, who is not looking. A1 then goes and retrieves the ball - Legal? I say No - travel !

(3) A1 has the ball (w/o starting a dribble) and attempts a pass to A2; yet fumbles the ball as the ball is passed. A1 then retrieves the ball - Legal? I say Yes, since its a 'fumble' !

(4) A1 in the post ( w/o a previous dribble ) dribbles the ball w/two hands and then picks it up to attempt a 'shot' - Legal? I say 'yes'...a few have stated that this is a 'double-dribble' - wrong !

Thanks ahead of time for the replies !
1) No mention of feet or pivot feet. SO until I know what the feet were doing during this time I can't determine travel or not by just what the ball is doing.

2) Again "goes and retrieves" does not tell me what his/her feet are doing. THis is pretty important information in determining a travel.

3) There is nothing illegal here, but there might be if we knew what was being judged a fumble and what they did with their feet to retrieve it.

4) Agreed.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 11:38am
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I think the question being asked in #1 and #2 assume the feet are not relevant on the release (the pivot foot is not lifted). The real question is whether the player can throw the ball and then run to catch it.

The answer:
If the ball does not bounce, NO....illegal dribble or travel (it could be deemed to be either).
If the ball bounces before being touched, YES....that is a dribble by definition.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 11:41am.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 11:43am
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Release or bounce?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I think the question being asked in #1 and #2 assume the feet are not relevant on the release (the pivot foot is not lifted). The real question is whether the player can throw the ball and then run to catch it.

The answer:
If the ball does not bounce, NO....illegal dribble or travel (it could be deemed to be either).
If the ball bounces before being touched, YES....that is a dribble by definition.
I am out of town and do not have the book in front of me, but I thought the traveling restriction from the pivot foot moving only applied until the ball was released? I do not recall the ball having to bounce before the pivot foot moves matters for a travel to take place.

Could someone post that part of the rule please?

Peace
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 11:55am
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In summary, I see now how the rule is interpreted....

Allow me to clarify, in the 1st two scenarios, the ball was released 'prior' to the pivot foot being released. Hence, as was last posted by Camron Rust ( thank you ) if the ball DOES NOT hit the floor ( i.e. bounce ) then this is considered a travel/illegal dribble ! However, if the ball has hit the floor, then A1 can LEGALLY commence a dribble.

However, in scenarios 1 and 2 can A1 legally retrieve the ball - i.e retain possession w/o commencing a 'dribble'?
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Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd41flpk View Post
In summary, I see now how the rule is interpreted....

Allow me to clarify, in the 1st two scenarios, the ball was released 'prior' to the pivot foot being released. Hence, as was last posted by Camron Rust ( thank you ) if the ball DOES NOT hit the floor ( i.e. bounce ) then this is considered a travel/illegal dribble ! However, if the ball has hit the floor, then A1 can LEGALLY commence a dribble.

However, in scenarios 1 and 2 can A1 legally retrieve the ball - i.e retain possession w/o commencing a 'dribble'?
In scenarios 1 and 2 the action described was A1's dribble. Once (s)he catches the ball the dribble has ended.
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Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 01:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am out of town and do not have the book in front of me, but I thought the traveling restriction from the pivot foot moving only applied until the ball was released? I do not recall the ball having to bounce before the pivot foot moves matters for a travel to take place.

Could someone post that part of the rule please?

Peace
I didn't say anything about the pivot foot having to be down until the ball bounced (it doesn't).
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 01:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd41flpk View Post
In summary, I see now how the rule is interpreted....

Allow me to clarify, in the 1st two scenarios, the ball was released 'prior' to the pivot foot being released. Hence, as was last posted by Camron Rust ( thank you ) if the ball DOES NOT hit the floor ( i.e. bounce ) then this is considered a travel/illegal dribble ! However, if the ball has hit the floor, then A1 can LEGALLY commence a dribble.

However, in scenarios 1 and 2 can A1 legally retrieve the ball - i.e retain possession w/o commencing a 'dribble'?
In #1, the mere act of catching the ball before it hits the floor is a violation. The NFHS has waffled on whether it is a travel or an illegal dribble but both rules could easily apply. Note that there is an exception for a player tossing the ball into the air and catching it WITHOUT moving their pivot foot.

In #2, the action is actually a dribble and they may retrieve the ball. If they do so by catching the ball, they may not dribble again since they already used the dribble. If they retrieve the ball by "continuing" with a dribble, they are legal.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 01:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd41flpk View Post
...a few have stated that this is a 'double-dribble' - wrong !
Who are these "few"?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 01:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd41flpk View Post
Please comment on these plays as being ruled: 'Travel' or not?

(4) A1 in the post ( w/o a previous dribble ) dribbles the ball w/two hands and then picks it up to attempt a 'shot' - Legal? I say 'yes'...a few have stated that this is a 'double-dribble' - wrong !
Can't have a double dribble (aka, illegal dribble) without the ball bouncing at least twice. And then, it only become illegal if one of the touches BETWEEN two of the bounces ends the dribble...touching it with two hands, catching it, etc. There are no restrictions on how many hands the dribble can be started or ended with.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I didn't say anything about the pivot foot having to be down until the ball bounced (it doesn't).
This is why I asked the question. It was unclear what you were trying to say and unclear what the bd41flpk was trying to suggest was illegal about this play. If a player throws a ball in the air (not apart of a shot) then this is not there is nothing illegal about that action as far as I could tell. I was just wondering if I missed some part of the rule.

Peace
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 07, 2014, 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
This is why I asked the question. It was unclear what you were trying to say and unclear what the bd41flpk was trying to suggest was illegal about this play. If a player throws a ball in the air (not apart of a shot) then this is not there is nothing illegal about that action as far as I could tell. I was just wondering if I missed some part of the rule.

Peace
It has to bounce before they can touch it again or continue a dribble.
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