(NBA) 0 and 00 on same team

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The fact that there's a penalty means that they aren't alowed.

You might as well ask" can a player run with the ball?"

No, it's not allowed.

Well, of course the player can -- but there's a penalty involved.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Some things aren't allowed, period (jewelry, illegal undershirts).

Some are not allowed without penalty.

I thought the zeros were in the first category.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The fact that there's a penalty means that they aren't alowed.

You might as well ask" can a player run with the ball?"

No, it's not allowed.

Well, of course the player can -- but there's a penalty involved.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Bob,

I do understand your point and that is why I did ask for a clarification. I spent two weeks discussing the clearly written portion of the rule - 0 and 00 are not allowed - with a rules guy a couple of seasons ago. Because the rule states "shall not", he thought there was no need to visit the penalty section. And, he insisted because the rule was so clearly written, there was no need for an interpretation at all.

I do admit that 2008/09 interp is a little contradictory to me.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 2: A team has members with No. 0 and No. 00 listed in the scorebook and it is discovered (a) with 14 minutes on the clock prior to the game, (b) with 8 minutes on the clock prior to the game or (c) after the game starts. RULING: In (a), changes can be made without penalty. In (b), if a number is changed in the scorebook, a team technical is charged. The offended team is awarded two free throws and a throw-in at the division line to begin the game. The arrow is toward the offending team. If no changes are made to the scorebook, no infraction has occurred. In (c), after the game starts, there is no infraction if only one of the team members (No. 0 or No. 00) participates. If the second team member wishes to participate, the result is an illegal number when "discovered." The penalty is a direct technical foul on the head coach for an illegal uniform. Two free throws and a division line throw-in for the offended team and loss of coaching box privileges for the offending coach. The second team member (with the illegal uniform number) may participate without further penalty and is NOT required to change his/her number. Another possibility exists after the game starts when one of the team members wants to change his/her number prior to participating. The result is a team technical foul (no loss of coaching box) for changing the scorebook. COMMENT: No team should have both No. 0 and No. 00 on its regular roster. The infraction is likely due to bringing a player up or down a level. Therefore, it is possible the team has access to other legal uniforms to replace a uniform with an illegal number. (3-4-3d; 10-1-2; 10-5-4)

BillMac,

Thanks for finding and posting.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by Rich

No logical reason why this is disallowed in NFHS games, either. We allow 2 and 22, don't we?

Indeed. Folx know it as two and twenty-two and yeah, we don't say twenty-two but that's how they see it.

0 and 00 are what? Oh and Oh-Oh? or maybe zero and double zero? Depends on your mechanic. Yeah, we can distinguish the two, but the game includes spectators and competing teams, either of which can easily be confuse by this nothing and double-nothing nonsense.

The math folks will tell us 00, 0, 00000, and 0000000000 are all the same number -- zero.

The only reason 00 exists is Jim Otto had a good thing going when the AFL was looking for anything that would draw some notice. Since then it has been nothing more than bid for cheap attention.

The suggestion that 0 and 00 (zero and zero) are the same as 2 and 22 (two and twenty-two) is patently absurd.

[BillyMac]

Sidebar: Can players with duplicate numbers play after the charging of a technical foul upon discovery? I thought not, but now I'm questioning myself after reading through this thread.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sidebar: Can players with duplicate numbers play after the charging of a technical foul upon discovery? I thought not, but now I'm questioning myself after reading through this thread.

3.2.2 SITUATION B: Three minutes before the game starts, it is discovered: two Team B team members are wearing the same number. RULING: A technical foul is charged to Team B upon discovery of the identical numbers. Only one team member may wear a given number; the other must change to a number not already in use before participating. (10-1-2)

OK. Let's say that you're checking the book, pregame, at the twelve minute mark, and discover duplicate numbers. You approach the coach, and he doesn't have any extra jerseys. Besides erasing one of the numbers before the ten minute mark, what are his other options? Let's say that he refuses to erase one of the numbers, even after the ten minute mark, now what happens after the technical foul is charged? Can either player play?

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Indeed. Folx know it as two and twenty-two and yeah, we don't say twenty-two but that's how they see it.

Who is this "we"?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Indeed. Folx know it as two and twenty-two and yeah, we don't say twenty-two but that's how they see it.

Umm, I say twenty-two. Why wouldn't I?

[ronny mulkey]

OK. Let's say that you're checking the book, pregame, at the twelve minute mark, and discover duplicate numbers. You approach the coach, and he doesn't have any extra jerseys. Besides erasing one of the numbers before the ten minute mark, what are his other options? Let's say that he refuses to erase one of the numbers, even after the ten minute mark, now what happens after the technical foul is charged? Can either player play?[/QUOTE]

After the technical is assessed, then the first team member to play is the ONLY person that gets to play. This is an example of a ruling that actually means "shall not" or "cannot" even at the expense of a technical.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

After the technical is assessed, then the first team member to play is the ONLY person that gets to play. This is an example of a ruling that actually means "shall not" or "cannot" even at the expense of a technical.

Sounds good. Got a citation, maybe an interpretation?

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds good. Got a citation, maybe an interpretation?

I'm assuming that you are looking for something that would allow at least one of them to play????

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

I'm assuming that you are looking for something that would allow at least one of them to play????

I just wanted to know the options that an official could give the coach.

"No extra uniforms? Since we're still twelve minutes away from tip off, you can erase one of the names from the scorebook with no penalty."

"You want to know what happens if you don't erase one the names in the next two minutes? Well, to start with, your team will be charged with a technical foul. After that ..."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Indeed. Folx know it as two and twenty-two and yeah, we don't say twenty-two but that's how they see it.

We don't? That is exactly what we teach new officials to say in our training classes. Much less likely to be misunderstood than a non-natural two-two.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

We don't? That is exactly what we teach new officials to say in our training classes. Much less likely to be misunderstood than a non-natural two-two.

I'm not sure I agree that one is more or less likely to be misunderstood, but I'm a reformed "two two" guy. No one taught me one way or the other, for some reason I just started doing it that way.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm a reformed "two two" guy.

Did it take a twelve step program?