Foul on Defense Big Man?????

[BubbaRef]

I have been watching alot of college hoops this winter and something I have been seeing is starting to kinda bother me. I know early on in the season the NCAA wanted to clean it up with the hand checking and all that. That is fine which I thought needed to be done. Then conference play started and then all that pretty much went away especially in the Big Ten.

But what is bothering me is the big men in the game are at a disadvantage from what I have been seeing called. Big man is straight up not moving and the offensive player creates all kinds of contact and the defensive big man gets called for a foul. Then I watch the official report the foul and more times than not the preliminary that they give is that the defender put his hands down. So I then rewind and watch. The reason he put his hands down is because the offensive player put a shoulder into the chest of the defender causing the defender to buckle down and therefore lowering his arms so to speak.

Ive been officiating HS ball for 21 years and have a hard time calling this. I usually call nothing or an offensive foul. When I dont call anything the coach of the offensive team is asking why and I tell them if he wants me to call a foul its going to be offensive. Just dont see why college officials are putting the defensive big man at a disadvantage in these types of situations.

Am I wrong for thinking this and not calling this?

[Terrapins Fan]

I agree with you, but I'd like to see the video you are seeing.

The key is, "who created the contact".

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

I have been watching alot of college hoops this winter and something I have been seeing is starting to kinda bother me. I know early on in the season the NCAA wanted to clean it up with the hand checking and all that. That is fine which I thought needed to be done. Then conference play started and then all that pretty much went away especially in the Big Ten.

But what is bothering me is the big men in the game are at a disadvantage from what I have been seeing called. Big man is straight up not moving and the offensive player creates all kinds of contact and the defensive big man gets called for a foul. Then I watch the official report the foul and more times than not the preliminary that they give is that the defender put his hands down. So I then rewind and watch. The reason he put his hands down is because the offensive player put a shoulder into the chest of the defender causing the defender to buckle down and therefore lowering his arms so to speak.

Ive been officiating HS ball for 21 years and have a hard time calling this. I usually call nothing or an offensive foul. When I dont call anything the coach of the offensive team is asking why and I tell them if he wants me to call a foul its going to be offensive. Just dont see why college officials are putting the defensive big man at a disadvantage in these types of situations.

Am I wrong for thinking this and not calling this?

You are 100% correct and my partners and I pregame not penalizing verticality or size. We also pregame not rewarding an offensive player for jumping into an otherwise legal defender.

I did see a decent call in OT of the Iowa/Tenn game last night for a slight body bump by an Iowa big man who had his arms straight up. The Iowa defender was moving forward at the time of contact with the Tenn post player who went airborne. The call was technically correct, but if he had passed on the contact, it would have been accepted as well.
What should have been whistled in my opinion (by Verne Harris) was the clear and substantial hold just after the Tenn post player received the ball. He was able to turn and break away from that, then the secondary defender got called for the small bump.

[jeremy341a]

On the flip side what I see a lot at all levels is the " I'm straight up" big guy walking under the offense but not called for a foul. I love calling it while they stand with their hands up in the air for 10 seconds afterwards.

[ballgame99]

I'm with you on this. I've seen some games where I'm not sure a big man could be guarded without a foul. Defenders are being pushed down by the offensive player for position and if they push back its called a foul, if they don't push back they get posted up deep and a foul called when they jump vertically and an offensive player is creating 100 percent of the contact. Who is being disadvantaged in that scenario? What do you want that guy to do? Just get out of the way?

[BubbaRef]

Oh trust me, I also see when Big Men stick out their chest or throw a little hip into it. I agree that is a foul on the defense for creating the contact. Just getting old seeing the offense create contact and expected to be bailed out because of it.

[Pantherdreams]

I think the issue is the expectation the official may be putting on the defense.

In your situation the generic big man standing straight up while I slasher bumps and buckles the offensive player.

If the official feels like the offensive contact isn't significant enough to call a charge defensive player options:
- Defender tries to stay straight up and still but can't, arms come down, now these disadvantage the shooter - foul.
- Defender tries to stay straight up and has to step back. Offensive player creates space and gets and easier shot.
- Defender tries to sell contact and official ignores so the offensive player gets an easy layup OR the ref punishes the fall with a blocking call or T.

The underlying issue tends to be when the big interior players are "expected" to be able to play through more. IE. if they aren't getting their chest collapsed on a bigtime collision, be able to stand up through the entire contact.

A number of officials do not want PC calls on plays where they are not absoultely sure and the defense is not noticeably displaced.

I think this falls into a similar category as if a little dives after a ball and in turns into a pile and the fans, coaches and some officials think great hustle play after the ball and we play on or call the held ball/jump. Conversely is a big does the same thing and it becomes a train wreck the place loses its mind and the big gets fouled for displacing.

Based on relative size each official has some bias in terms of what they feel does/should disadvantage a player.

I've tangented a couple of times already in this response so one more should do it. If we officiate the defense you get most foul calls/ no calls correct. However if for game flow we don't call travels or PC fouls as consistently and regularly as the occur then the offense gets a decided "advantage" in terms of how the game is called. Hand checks, blocking, etc are how the defense is penalized for not having proper positioning and footwork. PC's and travels are how the offense is. I personally see and work with officials, (and have been guilty myself) of officiating the defense to a point where the offense is getting more no calls/ benefits of the doubt then the defense is.

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by BubbaRef

Oh trust me, I also see when Big Men stick out their chest or throw a little hip into it. I agree that is a foul on the defense for creating the contact. Just getting old seeing the offense create contact and expected to be bailed out because of it.

Did you happen to see the St. Joe's/UConn game last night? They only showed one quick replay and I only half caught it live, but I thought that it might've been a tough call that falls into this category that put Kanacevick (#45 Red) on the bench with his 5th.

Edit: In OT. (Full disclosure this isn't a compliaint, I had UConn in my bracket!!, just a play for discussion)

[BubbaRef]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

Did you happen to see the St. Joe's/UConn game last night? They only showed one quick replay and I only half caught it live, but I thought that it might've been a tough call that falls into this category that put Kanacevick (#45 Red) on the bench with his 5th.

Edit: In OT. (Full disclosure this isn't a compliaint, I had UConn in my bracket!!, just a play for discussion)

No I did not watch this game. Although I watched plenty of games yesterday and will do so today.