ref the defense

[gojeremy]

1st year official....so what exactly does "Ref the defense" mean?

[dsqrddgd909]

Ref the Defense?
Ref The Defense
"Referee the Defense" tips/advice?

[Indianaref]

Determining block/charge. You need to locate the defensive player to determine if he was in legal guarding position.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by gojeremy

1st year official....so what exactly does "Ref the defense" mean?

Just about the only thing you need to be watching in order to determine who fouled who is the defender, not the offensive player. There is very little the offensive player can do that you need to watch. If the defender does nothing illegal, that means they didn't foul. If there is still enough contact for a foul, it was committed by the offense.

Did the defender get LGP?
Did the defender stay vertical?
Did the defender move laterally or away from the opponent or did they move toward the opponent at the time of contact?
Was the contact on the defender's torso or an extended limb?
...

Note that none of the above items depend on where or how the offense got there....only the defender.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There is very little the offensive player can do that you need to watch.

Travel?

[blindzebra]

I never liked the term as it promotes tunnel vision.

As a new official my advice is:

Scan your primary and locate your defenders.

Be aware of where the ball is at.

If it is in your primary find the match up and determine LGP, find the ball's status...is there a dribble, if holding which is the pivot foot.

Position to see through the play and watch if the defender maintains LGP.

And once you have that start looking for other match ups in your primary, through the main match up. Off ball calls when you have the ball is a money call!

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Just about the only thing you need to be watching in order to determine who fouled who is the defender, not the offensive player. There is very little the offensive player can do that you need to watch. If the defender does nothing illegal, that means they didn't foul. If there is still enough contact for a foul, it was committed by the offense.

Did the defender get LGP?
Did the defender stay vertical?
Did the defender move laterally or away from the opponent or did they move toward the opponent at the time of contact.
Was the contact on the defender's torso or an extended limb?
...

Note that none of the above items depend on where or how the offense got there....only the defender.

In a conversation last week, with a friend who does D1 Men, in several conferences, he addressed the subject in similar terms. And he added, "When the coach asks you what his player did wrong, that caused you to call a foul on him, you have to be able to answer very specifically; such as, he moved into the ball handler, or even though he was vertical, he brought his hands down, or he hit the opponent on the arm, etc."
If you can't explain the call easily, and specifically, there may be a problem with that call. And maybe the problem is that you were watching the offense, rather than officiating the defense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

In a conversation last week, with a friend who does D1 Men, in several conferences, he addressed the subject in similar terms. And he added, "When the coach asks you what his player did wrong, that caused you to call a foul on him, you have to be able to answer very specifically; such as, he moved into the ball handler, or even though he was vertical, he brought his hands down, or he hit the opponent on the arm, etc."
If you can't explain the call easily, and specifically, there may be a problem with that call. And maybe the problem is that you were watching the offense, rather than officiating the defense.

That works better with college coaches. College coaches are more willing to hear what an official has to say when they ask a direct question. HS coaches like to debate things that often are not real rules. So it is true that giving the language is better and maybe even being specific, just pointing out that this is not a guarantee for better communication with a coach.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Travel?

I've never called a foul when a player travels....referee the defense is a technique for refereeing contact/fouls, not violations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've never called a foul when a player travels.

How would you know that he traveled if "there is very little the offensive player can do that you need to watch"?

Of course, if by "very little" you meant traveling, then your original statement is copasetic.

Just because there is a light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean that we should have tunnel vision.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That works better with college coaches. College coaches are more willing to hear what an official has to say when they ask a direct question. HS coaches like to debate things that often are not real rules. ...

HS coaches hear your explanation, and then use it as an excuse to complain about a totally unrelated play.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

HS coaches hear your explanation, and then use it as an excuse to complain about a totally unrelated play.

Or not like the explanation and start throwing a temper tantrum worthy of my three year old's.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How would you know that he traveled if "there is very little the offensive player can do that you need to watch"?

Of course, if by "very little" you meant traveling, then your original statement is copasetic.

Just because there is a light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean that we should have tunnel vision.

The point is that "referee the defense" is a technique or adjudicating fouls without commenting on other possible things that need to be watched....and the "very little" allows for the other miscellaneous stuff.

[centkyref]

Had a block/charge play last night; pretty easy call because I refereed the defense (thanks to you on this board for clarifying the concept). Found the defender, saw the contact, made the charge call.

I reported the foul, and ended up right in the coach's lap as new C tableside. He asked why the call went that way since the contact wasn't square to the chest. I replied that it doesn't have to be square to chest contact and asked him what the defender did wrong.

"Well, he was still moving!"
"...Sorry coach, didn't see it that way...If it happened the way you say, maybe I missed it. But I don't think so."

He laughed and said, "Well you seem confident in it"

Nice guy, doesn't say a whole lot and gets a lot out of his team even when they aren't overly talented.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by centkyref

"Well, he was still moving!"
"...Sorry coach, didn't see it that way...If it happened the way you say, maybe I missed it. But I don't think so."

He laughed and said, "Well you seem confident in it"

Nice guy, doesn't say a whole lot and gets a lot out of his team even when they aren't overly talented.

And if you did see it his way, you are calling a block? What does moving have to do with calling a PC foul or a blocking foul?

Peace