Inadvertant horn

[OKREF]

State tournament, this just happened. I have looked in the book, can't find anything.

Team A has the ball. Horn goes off and everyone just stops? Officials do not stop play, A1 goes and scores a bucket. After the bucket, officials come together and take the two points off the board and go back to where the horn went off and resumed play from there.

My opinion is you either blow your whistle immediately and stop play when everyone stopped, or you ignore the horn and play on. What you don't do is wait and then take points away. Any thoughts?

Not sure about the rules backing, but I think they did the right thing.

[JetMetFan]

The whistle should have been blown when it was apparent all of the players - and at the very least the players on defense - stopped.

However - and I'm basing this on a couple of case plays dealing with inadvertent whistles so feel free to argue - if no one blew their whistle the points should have been allowed. The sound of the horn doesn't cause the ball to become dead. NFHS 6-7-5 reads "The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when an official's whistle is blown." Since that didn't happen, score the goal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

NFHS 6-7-5 reads "The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when an official's whistle is blown." Since that didn't happen, score the goal.

16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

Who are you going to trust? The rule book or that "myths" thing?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Who are you going to trust? The rule book or that "myths" thing?

I know that your kidding, but some young'uns might not know that the Basketball Rule Fundamentals are included, and considered part of, the rulebook.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

Not in this play it wasn't, so the post is irrelevant to the OP.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not in this play it wasn't, so the post is irrelevant to the OP.

Agree, but still a good addendum, for educational purposes, to JetMetFan's post, and citation.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The whistle should have been blown when it was apparent all of the players - and at the very least the players on defense - stopped.

However - and I'm basing this on a couple of case plays dealing with inadvertent whistles so feel free to argue - if no one blew their whistle the points should have been allowed. The sound of the horn doesn't cause the ball to become dead. NFHS 6-7-5 reads "The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when an official's whistle is blown." Since that didn't happen, score the goal.

It may not be the same everywhere, but here in Ohio we're told not to blow our whistles when the horn goes off to end a period. However, just because we don't blow our whistles, that doesn't mean a team can score after the horn.

So while I agree with the interpretation of the rule book, in actuality that doesn't seem to be true, and therefore those points can indeed be taken away.

[Rob1968]

NFHS Officials Manual2.4.9 Inadvertant Whistles/Horns:

"B. If the scorer's horn is sounded while the ball is live, or when it is about to become live, the official may ignore it or honor it. The horn has no effect, but the official's whistle shall cause the ball to become dead or to remain dead."

For many years, we taught that if the horn sounds while the ball is live, the officials should verbally acknowledge that it was a mistake, by stating, "Play on." In the event that a player commits a violation, for example, the ballhandler travels, obviously because of hearing the horn, that the officials should sound the whistle, verify the reason for the horn sounding, and re-start the game at the POI. In such cases, common sense should dictate the officials' actions.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

In the event that a player commits a violation, for example, the ballhandler travels, obviously because of hearing the horn, that the officials should sound the whistle, verify the reason for the horn sounding, and re-start the game at the POI. In such cases, common sense should dictate the officials' actions.

Common sense? Or Fundamental #16: The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)? Or both? Interesting. Very interesting. So, the player traveled while the ball was live, but we pretend that the ball was already dead, before the travel? Again. Interesting. Very interesting. Am I allowed to pretend that the game I worked a few nights ago was the first perfect game that I called in my career? I just love this pretend stuff. It's better than following the rulebook, or casebook. Of course 2-3 can get us out of a lot of "situations". It like a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card, a basketball official's best friend.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

It may not be the same everywhere, but here in Ohio we're told not to blow our whistles when the horn goes off to end a period. However, just because we don't blow our whistles, that doesn't mean a team can score after the horn.

So while I agree with the interpretation of the rule book, in actuality that doesn't seem to be true, and therefore those points can indeed be taken away.

You may not fully understand your instruction. When there is no try in flight at the expiration of time, then it is true that no whistle is necessary as the ball becomes dead upon the sounding of the horn. However when there is a try in flight as time expires, then the ball remains live until the try ends and at that point a whistle should be blown to signify the end of the quarter and that the ball is now dead.
Otherwise what the argument you are making is illogical. You are contending that the horn makes the ball dead in your area, but then stating that the officials can play on anyway and then come back and cancel the goal.
If any horn makes the ball dead in your state, then the play ends immediately and no goal can be scored. Btw that is counter to both the text of the NFHS Case Book and Official's Manual.

[Indianaref]

Interesting that this topic has just been brought up. Indiana's 3A girl's state final had a situation towards the end of game that had an inadvertent horn during a free throw. The lead official whistle the ball dead while the throw is in the air. He waived off the shot, which I thought at the time was something he didn't have the rules backing for. Here is the link, scroll to 1:41:53 to see the situation.

2014 IHSAA Girls Basketball 3A State Championship | Indiana High School Athletic Association Videos | iHigh.com

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You may not fully understand your instruction. When there is no try in flight at the expiration of time, then it is true that no whistle is necessary as the ball becomes dead upon the sounding of the horn. However when there is a try in flight as time expires, then the ball remains live until the try ends and at that point a whistle should be blown to signify the end of the quarter and that the ball is now dead.
Otherwise what the argument you are making is illogical. You are contending that the horn makes the ball dead in your area, but then stating that the officials can play on anyway and then come back and cancel the goal.
If any horn makes the ball dead in your state, then the play ends immediately and no goal can be scored. Btw that is counter to both the text of the NFHS Case Book and Official's Manual.

Whether or not there is a ball in the air when the horn goes off is irrelevant to our use of whistles at the end of the game... we just don't do it. I understand that it may be against what the rule book or official's manual says, but it wouldn't be the first time we did things differently (see the use of the "hand behind the head" signal on charging fouls). However, I'll make sure that I'm not misunderstanding things.

Heck, I don't even remember why I brought that up, as it doesn't seem relevant to the OP. Speaking of which... If that happened to me I'd immediately blow my whistle, go to the table to find out why the horn went off and make sure it won't happen again, and then restart the game from the POI.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not sure about the rules backing, but I think they did the right thing.

No backing for that. OKREF is right. If you don't kill it right away, you need to allow the basket. If everyone stops, I might be inclined to kill it immediately.