Inadvertant horn

[OKREF]

State tournament, this just happened. I have looked in the book, can't find anything.

Team A has the ball. Horn goes off and everyone just stops? Officials do not stop play, A1 goes and scores a bucket. After the bucket, officials come together and take the two points off the board and go back to where the horn went off and resumed play from there.

My opinion is you either blow your whistle immediately and stop play when everyone stopped, or you ignore the horn and play on. What you don't do is wait and then take points away. Any thoughts?

Not sure about the rules backing, but I think they did the right thing.

[JetMetFan]

The whistle should have been blown when it was apparent all of the players - and at the very least the players on defense - stopped.

However - and I'm basing this on a couple of case plays dealing with inadvertent whistles so feel free to argue - if no one blew their whistle the points should have been allowed. The sound of the horn doesn't cause the ball to become dead. NFHS 6-7-5 reads "The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when an official's whistle is blown." Since that didn't happen, score the goal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

NFHS 6-7-5 reads "The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when an official's whistle is blown." Since that didn't happen, score the goal.

16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

Who are you going to trust? The rule book or that "myths" thing?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Who are you going to trust? The rule book or that "myths" thing?

I know that your kidding, but some young'uns might not know that the Basketball Rule Fundamentals are included, and considered part of, the rulebook.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Not sure about the rules backing, but I think they did the right thing.

No backing for that. OKREF is right. If you don't kill it right away, you need to allow the basket. If everyone stops, I might be inclined to kill it immediately.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead).

Not in this play it wasn't, so the post is irrelevant to the OP.

[Nevadaref]

The officials didn't stop play to determine the reason for the horn, so the basket should have counted.


2.11.3 SITUATION:

When may the scorer signal?

RULING: If the scorer desires to call attention to a player who is illegally in the game, he/she may signal the official when the ball is in control of that player's team. If it is for a substitution, the scorer may signal when the ball next becomes dead and the clock is stopped. If it is for conferring with an official, he/she may signal when the ball is dead. If the scorer signals while the ball is live, the official should ignore the signal if a scoring play is in progress. Otherwise, the official may stop play to determine the reason for the scorer's signal.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

No backing for that. OKREF is right. If you don't kill it right away, you need to allow the basket. If everyone stops, I might be inclined to kill it immediately.

I agree here. Since it wasn't stopped immediately, then you have to score the bucket. However, if it is me, once I see everyone stop, I am stopping play right then.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not in this play it wasn't, so the post is irrelevant to the OP.

Agree, but still a good addendum, for educational purposes, to JetMetFan's post, and citation.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The whistle should have been blown when it was apparent all of the players - and at the very least the players on defense - stopped.

However - and I'm basing this on a couple of case plays dealing with inadvertent whistles so feel free to argue - if no one blew their whistle the points should have been allowed. The sound of the horn doesn't cause the ball to become dead. NFHS 6-7-5 reads "The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when an official's whistle is blown." Since that didn't happen, score the goal.

It may not be the same everywhere, but here in Ohio we're told not to blow our whistles when the horn goes off to end a period. However, just because we don't blow our whistles, that doesn't mean a team can score after the horn.

So while I agree with the interpretation of the rule book, in actuality that doesn't seem to be true, and therefore those points can indeed be taken away.

[Rob1968]

NFHS Officials Manual2.4.9 Inadvertant Whistles/Horns:

"B. If the scorer's horn is sounded while the ball is live, or when it is about to become live, the official may ignore it or honor it. The horn has no effect, but the official's whistle shall cause the ball to become dead or to remain dead."

For many years, we taught that if the horn sounds while the ball is live, the officials should verbally acknowledge that it was a mistake, by stating, "Play on." In the event that a player commits a violation, for example, the ballhandler travels, obviously because of hearing the horn, that the officials should sound the whistle, verify the reason for the horn sounding, and re-start the game at the POI. In such cases, common sense should dictate the officials' actions.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

In the event that a player commits a violation, for example, the ballhandler travels, obviously because of hearing the horn, that the officials should sound the whistle, verify the reason for the horn sounding, and re-start the game at the POI. In such cases, common sense should dictate the officials' actions.

Common sense? Or Fundamental #16: The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)? Or both? Interesting. Very interesting. So, the player traveled while the ball was live, but we pretend that the ball was already dead, before the travel? Again. Interesting. Very interesting. Am I allowed to pretend that the game I worked a few nights ago was the first perfect game that I called in my career? I just love this pretend stuff. It's better than following the rulebook, or casebook. Of course 2-3 can get us out of a lot of "situations". It like a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card, a basketball official's best friend.

[bob jenkins]

I'd treat it like the "official announces 2 FTs when it's really 1-1".

If everyone keeps playing, let the play stand. If all stop except 1, kill it (even retroactively). In between, officiate.

So, in the OP, kill it (assuming the phrase "everyone just stops" is correct)