Talking to players

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm glad you asked! Here are our four objectives as officials:

3. Help players develop skills and knowledge of the sport

I would say that is exactly the college philosophy. HS may be different however.

Why do you say stuff like this? If that's something you want to have in your job description, I suggest you take up coaching. This is NOT the college philosphy, and not the HS either.

Honestly - I can only see that applying if you're working a youth league somewhere or at the VERY most 7th grade B&C games.

[BryanV21]

If I don't deem contact to be sufficient enough to warrant a foul, I may say something about cleaning things up to avoid it escalating into pushing or fighting-like activity later. It's not necessarily to avoid one or both of them drawing fouls. IMO, it's more important to avoid a fight than to possibly give one or the other coaching-like advice.

As for talking players out of things, as I get into sub-varsity and lower levels, such a thing will happen more and more. All of which gets into the part about helping players develop skills and knowledge of the sport.

[Pantherdreams]

I get the preventative officiating is important and plays a role. I think at a HS level you've got to read the level of the game, players and coaches involved to make preventative decisions. Anything higher then high school though unless you are cleaning up borderline plays that may escalate. You have to make calls or let it be.

With kids/coaches/teams who know the rules they are playing at the edge of the rule intentionally. Accidents/crossing the line they expect to have called. Coaches in those games don't want you telling kids not to reach or clear the lane. They either want their kid to keep playing the way they are playing or make an adjustment once you've called it a couple of times.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm glad you asked! Here are our four objectives as officials:

1. Ensure player safety
2. Ensure games are played fairly, according to the rules
3. Help players develop skills and knowledge of the sport
4. Promote sportsmanship

If a player is setting a marginal screen I will pull them over and let them know that by rule they cannot be moving. We are not just enforcers of the rules, but teachers and communicators of it, especially at the development levels.

Help players develop skills? Really? I think you're messin with me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

As a coach, I don't think it's right for refs to talk to players in ways that give them an advantage. For example, "watch the 3 seconds", "watch the handcheck", "keep still on that screen". Just call it. Why are you coaching/advising them? I like to think my team knows how to avoid 3 second calls, guard without handchecking, set proper screens, etc... Why is my opponent being aided?

I've sat courtside at many NCAA and NBA games, and I can't remember hearing an official saying a word to a player about what he is currently doing wrong. They just blow the whistle and call it.

Don't see why high school varsity should be any different.

There is something called preventative officiating. I tell players a lot of things if is going to prevent me from making a call that interrupts the game. And you only talk when you see someone do something borderline or it might not have actually created an advantage or was not clearly a violation. And players nowadays come to us often (at least in my experience) about things they get called for. So yes, we are going to talk to them and we have the right to talk to them.

I cannot speak for the NBA, but I know at the NCAA level, many officials talk to players when they can. And at least on the Men's side, they often want us to talk to players when we can. And I have seen many NBA official talk to players and the NBA made many videos public that officials talked directly to players. Not every conversation is going to be out in the open or where most even know what is said, but it is part of what we do in officiating in all sports and all levels.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is something called preventative officiating.

Totally agree. It's not like we are allowing illegal contact and then saying "tsk, tsk don't do that, I'm going to call it next time." It's smart preventative officiating to talk to players when they are toeing the line between marginal and illegal (at the right time of course).

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is something called preventative officiating. I tell players a lot of things if is going to prevent me from making a call that interrupts the game. And you only talk when you see someone do something borderline or it might not have actually created an advantage or was not clearly a violation. And players nowadays come to us often (at least in my experience) about things they get called for. So yes, we are going to talk to them and we have the right to talk to them.

I cannot speak for the NBA, but I know at the NCAA level, many officials talk to players when they can. And at least on the Men's side, they often want us to talk to players when we can. And I have seen many NBA official talk to players and the NBA made many videos public that officials talked directly to players. Not every conversation is going to be out in the open or where most even know what is said, but it is part of what we do in officiating in all sports and all levels.

Peace

Absolutely, I agree with this. And, I encourage my players if they're unsure what they did wrong to respectfully talk to the official. If done properly at a dead ball, most officials don't mind. On the NCAA level, each year the officials come in before the season and talk to the players/coaches about new rules and things they're emphasizing, and they'll officiate scrimmages/exhibition games to get the kids/coaches used to it. It's a good practice. I'm guessing they probably do it in the NBA, too.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

On the NCAA level, each year the officials come in before the season and talk to the players/coaches about new rules and things they're emphasizing, and they'll officiate scrimmages/exhibition games to get the kids/coaches used to it. It's a good practice. I'm guessing they probably do it in the NBA, too.

Are you saying it's not done at the HS level? Because it is, here.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Are you saying it's not done at the HS level? Because it is, here.

Here too.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Are you saying it's not done at the HS level? Because it is, here.

Here, too. See above.

[Coach Bill]

Here - the HS coaches go to a pre-season meeting, with the assumption the info is trickled down. I don't know if it happens at all NCAA schools, but at UMD, officials came to the gym, went through demonstrations, situations, and interpretations, and the players and coaches got to ask questions. It was excellent.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

....Why are you coaching/advising them? I like to think my team knows how to avoid 3 second calls, guard without handchecking, set proper screens, etc... Why is my opponent being aided?...

Coach, you get the same courtesy at the other end...

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Andy

Coach, you get the same courtesy at the other end...

I've never thought of it as a courtesy. And, like I said, I like to think that we play the right way. So, teams, that aren't, are indeed getting an advantage if they get a warning instead of a foul (for example).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

As a coach, I don't think it's right for refs to talk to players in ways that give them an advantage. For example, "watch the 3 seconds", "watch the handcheck", "keep still on that screen". Just call it. Why are you coaching/advising them? I like to think my team knows how to avoid 3 second calls, guard without handchecking, set proper screens, etc... Why is my opponent being aided?

I've sat courtside at many NCAA and NBA games, and I can't remember hearing an official saying a word to a player about what he is currently doing wrong. They just blow the whistle and call it.

Don't see why high school varsity should be any different.

In the season ending NCAA-Men's video, John Adams specifically tells officials to help prevent free throw violations by talking to the players. In fact, he added an animated cartoon dialogue bubble to the video to illustrate his point.

And if you watched the A10 final Sunday, there was one official who visibly talked to the players the entire game, even during live action.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In the season ending NCAA-Men's video, John Adams specifically tells officials to help prevent free throw violations by talking to the players. In fact, he added an animated cartoon dialogue bubble to the video to illustrate his point.

And if you watched the A10 final Sunday, there was one officials who visibly talking to the players the entire game, even during live action.

What was he saying? I've seen/heard them talk to players, too, at the NCAA level. Lots of times. My point was I never heard them say "No two hands on the ball-handler", "remove that armbar", "move out of the lane #3", etc.... They don't tell them what they're currently doing wrong, they just call it. However, i have seen/heard similar things at the HS level.

I'm curious, what did John Adams suggest to say to players to prevent free throw violations?