The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:29am
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,238
Verbally counting during a throw-in

Late in a close game, Team A has a backcourt endline throw-in coming out of a timeout. Team B is in a heavy full-court press, and has already been successful at causing a few 5-second throw-in violations earlier in the game.

Thrower A1 asks you to give a verbal count along with your regular arm count.

Do you oblige her request?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
No. I think it might state somewhere in one of the books (officials manual or rules book) that the count is "silent and visible". The Coach (or any other player for that matter) can watch the visual count and verbalize if they wish (or request a timeout if the count gets to 4).
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Only have last year's book with me, but the officals manual, 2.2.2.A.8 (General Throw in Provisions) states:
"The administering official shall begin the five-second count when the ball is at the thrower's disposal. The count is silent and visible"
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,001
Agreed. Do not count out loud.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Late in a close game, Team A has a backcourt endline throw-in coming out of a timeout. Team B is in a heavy full-court press, and has already been successful at causing a few 5-second throw-in violations earlier in the game.

Thrower A1 asks you to give a verbal count along with your regular arm count.

Do you oblige her request?
No I do not oblige. The coach can watch my arm swing and keep his own count.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:57am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,698
Never, you are giving the team with the ball an advantage.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 748
Do not count out loud. How do you respond if the inbound defender counts out loud? We've got a team here that has adopted it.

After a couple of games where they were warned to stop and tech'd up once, the coach/AD conctacted our assignor. It was determined that as there was no rule preventing them from counting or calling out numbers to indicate/communicate amongst defenders so long as they didn't use their count to argue or incite we had to let it go. When she gets to 5 well before my count she keeps yelling 5 over and over lol.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 11:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
How do you respond if the inbound defender counts out loud? We've got a team here that has adopted it.
You don't ... unless it is during a free throw, which could be considered disconcerting.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 12:45pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Do not count out loud. How do you respond if the inbound defender counts out loud? We've got a team here that has adopted it.

After a couple of games where they were warned to stop and tech'd up once, the coach/AD conctacted our assignor. It was determined that as there was no rule preventing them from counting or calling out numbers to indicate/communicate amongst defenders so long as they didn't use their count to argue or incite we had to let it go. When she gets to 5 well before my count she keeps yelling 5 over and over lol.
That's unsporting, and it's also deceptive. I'd put a stop to it, and frankly your association needs to stand up and say it.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
That's unsporting, and it's also deceptive. I'd put a stop to it, and frankly your association needs to stand up and say it.
I don't agree with this. It could potentially be unsporting I suppose, but counting out loud in and of itself is not unsporting. The defense could have a legitimate reason for wanting to count out loud and I'm certainly not penalizing the act of counting out loud. Perhaps the defense is fronting the offense and the on-ball defender is sharing information with his/her teamates.

If the counting were to be penalized, it would be for the "how", not the "what", and it would take a lot for me to go this route when it could simply be ignored.

And as far as being deceptive ... defenses should be allowed to be deceptive as long as that deception doesn't violate any rules. You wouldn't penalize a team for deceptively yelling out "2-3 zone, 2-3 zone" only to actually play a full court press. Why would any other deceptive verbal communication be any different?

Last edited by HokiePaul; Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 02:31pm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:33pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I don't agree with this. It could potentially be unsporting I suppose, but counting out loud in and of itself is not unsporting. The defense could have a legitimate reason for wanting to count out loud and I'm certainly not penalizing the act of counting out loud. Perhaps the defense is fronting the offense and the on-ball defender is sharing information with his/her teamates.
Do you believe it when coaches say, "I'm not talking to you."?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Do you believe it when coaches say, "I'm not talking to you."?
It would depend ... but it's also irrelevent to any penalty I'm going to assess. If I heard "that's terrible" from the coach, I'm not waiting to clarify whether or not it was directed at me to make a decision. If I'm turning to address the coach after hearing that, I've already made up my mind as to whether its a warning or a T
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:47pm
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I don't agree with this. It could potentially be unsporting I suppose, but counting out loud in and of itself is not unsporting.
In the post that started this part of the discussion, it was stated that the defender gets to 5 well before the official's count and then yells 5 over and over.

That is either being done to try to draw a call from us or to show us up. It's going to get a "Knock it off" from me and a word to the Coach about it asap, and if they keep doing it, it will result in a T being called.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:51pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
It would depend ... but it's also irrelevent to any penalty I'm going to assess. If I heard "that's terrible" from the coach, I'm not waiting to clarify whether or not it was directed at me to make a decision. If I'm turning to address the coach after hearing that, I've already made up my mind as to whether its a warning or a T
The reason I asked is actually in rockyroad's post - it's irrelevant why the team says they're doing it. I'd argue that they are doing it in an unsportsmanlike way.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Late in a close game, Team A has a backcourt endline throw-in coming out of a timeout. Team B is in a heavy full-court press, and has already been successful at causing a few 5-second throw-in violations earlier in the game.

Thrower A1 asks you to give a verbal count along with your regular arm count.

Do you oblige her request?
Absolutely not!! The job to figure out the count isn't the players, it's the coach-assistant coaches. But sometimes the player taking the ball out is heads up to know what the count is and call time out before a violation.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Counting Johnny Ringo Basketball 34 Mon Dec 28, 2009 08:07pm
8 Days and Counting refnrev Soccer 10 Thu Sep 03, 2009 07:52am
Counting JPaco54 Basketball 27 Sat Feb 14, 2009 07:55am
Counting WeekendRef Basketball 17 Sat Aug 07, 2004 05:51pm
I'm counting it!!! mick Basketball 11 Thu Apr 05, 2001 09:07am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1