Use of own backboard (not a try)

[HawkeyeCubP]

Link to play here

Someone set me straight on this. Either way. Legal or violation.

Mr. Adams is making it sound like it should be a violation in his latest video bulletin. I want to know what makes it illegal per what's printed.

[APG]

A.R. 108. A1 intercepts a pass and dribbles toward A’s basket for a breakaway layup. Near A’s free-throw line, A1 legally stops and ends his dribble. A1 throws the ball against A’s backboard and follows the throw. While airborne, A1 rebounds the ball off the backboard and dunks.

RULING: The play shall be legal since the backboard is located in A1’s front court, which A1 is entitled to use. (Rule 9-13.1 and 5-1.1 and .6)

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by APG

A.R. 108. A1 intercepts a pass and dribbles toward A’s basket for a breakaway layup. Near A’s free-throw line, A1 legally stops and ends his dribble. A1 throws the ball against A’s backboard and follows the throw. While airborne, A1 rebounds the ball off the backboard and dunks.

RULING: The play shall be legal since the backboard is located in A1’s front court, which A1 is entitled to use. (Rule 9-13.1 and 5-1.1 and .6)

Mkay. I've also cited NFHS Case Play 9.5(a). NCAA-W A.R. 68, NCAA-M A.R. 71 to support what you just asserted. I need someone to tell my why it'd be a violation. Which is what I'm gleaning from that Coordinator's question on that bulletin.

[APG]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Mkay. I've also cited NFHS Case Play 9.5(a). NCAA-W A.R. 68, NCAA-M A.R. 71 to support what you just asserted. I need someone to tell my why it'd be a violation. Which is what I'm gleaning from that Coordinator's question on that bulletin.

It isn't a violation...you only get into issues when you throw the ball off an opponent's backboard.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by APG

A.R. 108. A1 intercepts a pass and dribbles toward A’s basket for a breakaway layup. Near A’s free-throw line, A1 legally stops and ends his dribble. A1 throws the ball against A’s backboard and follows the throw. While airborne, A1 rebounds the ball off the backboard and dunks.

RULING: The play shall be legal since the backboard is located in A1’s front court, which A1 is entitled to use. (Rule 9-13.1 and 5-1.1 and .6)

In the video posted the player doesn't remain airborne. He catches the "rebound" and lands on the floor before attempting a shot.

I think it's an illegal dribble and a violation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

In the video posted the player doesn't remain airborne. He catches the "rebound" and lands on the floor before attempting a shot.

I think it's an illegal dribble and a violation.

I saw the play. The play is still legal...that throw against the backboard is a try.

*added*
You should look at the basketball rules fundamentals:

S. A ball that touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that, when the ball touches the thrower's backboard, it does not constitute a part of the dribble.

The play in question would only be a violation if he was throwing the ball off his opponent's backboard.

Originally Posted by APG

that throw against the backboard is a try

Per NFHS 4-41-2, "A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal."

That is not a try, that is an intentional self pass. Thus, travelling.

[APG]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Per NFHS 4-41-2, "A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal."

That is not a try, that is an intentional self pass. Thus, travelling.

There's no such thing as a self pass under NFHS/NCAA rules.

Sure you could try and show you've read the rule book and not judge that a try...and you'll be in the small minority.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by APG

I saw the play. The play is still legal...that throw against the backboard is a try.

...

In the NCAA video, Adams states that A1's throw off the backboard is not a try.

A1 obviously travels prior to the throw, though.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In the NCAA video, Adams states that A1's throw off the backboard is not a try.

A1 obviously travels prior to the throw, though.

Well that shows why I shouldn't comment on NCAA videos.

Also, here's the NFHS case book play:

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each.

RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by APG

... a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

May be used to do what? As Billy Shakespeare's Hamlet would say, "Ay, there's the rub". And why the quotation marks around equipment?

Many Forum members have tried to plead the case that something like this should be considered a try, even when it really isn't, but there's nothing in the rules that say that this should be considered a try. Note that the case play cited above avoids the word "try".

"Equipment"? So if I end my dribble, and bounce the ball of my headband, a piece of my team's equipment, then that means that I can legally dribble again?

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by APG

I saw the play. The play is still legal...that throw against the backboard is a try.

*added*
You should look at the basketball rules fundamentals:

S. A ball that touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that, when the ball touches the thrower's backboard, it does not constitute a part of the dribble.

The play in question would only be a violation if he was throwing the ball off his opponent's backboard.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Per NFHS 4-41-2, "A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal."

That is not a try, that is an intentional self pass. Thus, travelling.

Well now I'm more confused.

So it's not a dribble.

And in my judgement, it's not a try.

What the hell is it? Can the player dribble again?

I'm fine with the interpretation that it's a legal play, I'm just trying to fully understand why.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Per NFHS 4-41-2, "A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal."

That is not a try, that is an intentional self pass. Thus, travelling.

Where is the "self pass" prohibited in the rules?

For that matter, where is it defined?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Well now I'm more confused.

So it's not a dribble.

And in my judgement, it's not a try.

What the hell is it? Can the player dribble again?

I'm fine with the interpretation that it's a legal play, I'm just trying to fully understand why.

Because they don't want to void that great dunk where the athletic stud uses the backboard to look even more awesome.

Now, Adams seems to be splitting hairs and saying the violation should be called if the player lands after catching it rather than going straight to the dunk.

Frankly, the same rules apply, and if one is a violation, there's no rule justification for differentiating between the plays.

[Toren]

Well it's clearly not a shot, I think we would all agree with that.

And I'm sure if he did this same thing and the ball had contacted the rim, we would NOT reset the shot clock.

And it's not a pass, since a pass by rule is to another player.

So the part of the rule that I think is important is "In order for a pass to be completed, the ball shall touch another player." (4-24 NCAA)

To me this is the same as Player A1 throwing a ball toward Player A2. Realizing that B2 is about to steal it he hesitates and lofts it. A1 then proceeds to catch the ball himself after taking a number of steps. The ball never touches the ground.

So I'm just visualizing the play without the ball striking the backboard.

What would your ruling be in my situation? And if you rule it differently then the play posted, why?