No One Saw The Ball Go In

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Didn't that rule change about fifteen years ago?

See casebook 5.2.1 b

It doesn't matter if it was a shot or a pass, a ball "thrown" from behind a teams own 3-point arc thst enters their own goal is worth 3 points. On a side note, if this occured at the wrong basket, even if a player purposefully (assume accidentally) shot at the wrong goal it can only be counted as 2 points.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means. Look it up and learn something today.

By the book you are correct. However in every day usage this is how it is used. It may be wrong "by the strict definition" but hey I don't think there's a hair out there you don't like to split.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich1

As to the situation at hand, I do not see this as a CE. Based on the information from the table (and reactions of the players) it seems that a goal has been scored but there is no knowledge of from where. In this case only 2 points should be awarded, which should be clarified by the R asap but could happen anytime before the game ends since it is a scoring error. All other action still stands so I woud not erase the other teams basket nor cancel any fouls etc. that may have occured.

I disagree, from the way I read the OP. They knew it was thrown from behind the arc, they just didn't see it go in. The lead simply assumed it went in by the players' reactions (I've done that on a free throw once).

[onetime1]

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman

Hold on. This was a lob pass, not a try. It doesn't matter where it came from. It should be 2 or 0 not 3 or 0.

How can 1 determine a players correct form of a shot or pass?

[Rich1]

Adam -

If they had definite knowledge of where the ball originated then I have no problem with your post. But if they do not (no one indicated the three was good so I was not thinking they didn't although they could come to that conclusion in discussion) then I think they have to go with only two.

Onetime & Mechanicsman -

It doesn't matter either way. If the ball went in THEIR basket from behind THEIR arc it is a three regardless if it was a beautiful shot, ugly shot, pass, or otherwise. Nothing in the case play or rule book indicates it had to be a try, only that it has to meet the criteria above.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by onetime1

How can 1 determine a players correct form of a shot or pass?

Just like they do when a player is fouled but unable to release the ball (or the ball gets knocked away). Shooting or passing? You must use judgement based on what it looks like and what they were likely trying to do.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Just like they do when a player is fouled but unable to release the ball (or the ball gets knocked away). Shooting or passing? You must use judgement based on what it looks like and what they were likely trying to do.

Exactly.

Although it still doesn't matter in the OP (just clarifying, I know you aren't saying differently).

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Adam

If two of the officials were certain the ball was thrown from behind the arc but none actually saw the ball go in, I've got a bookkeeping error if it's determined later that the ball did not go in.

It seems to me, and Spence, maybe you can confirm or deny the meaning in the OP, but the issue is not whether it went in or not (even though no one actually saw it go in.). The issue is whether it went in on the pass, or was tipped in on the lob attempt. From the reaction of all the players, I think its reasonable to assume the ball entered the hoop in some fasion. But was it tipped in by the offensive player going up for the lob pass?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich1

Before chastising others with sophomoric commentary that has nothing to do with what we discuss here, a quick fact check yourself would be advised. The phrase referenced has several meanings, one of which is exactly as used by deecee.

Rich, it's a good thing that your officiating skills are superior to your grammar. Since you decided to come into this with an attitude, why don't you join young deecee in taking a look at this link (and several others which can be easily found with an Internet search) and learn something yourself today: Grammar Girl : Begs the Question :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?

Furthermore, my comment in response to deecee was meant to contain humor as well as to possibly help him learn a language fact. Clearly, you missed the reference to The Princess Bride.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

By the book you are correct. However in every day usage this is how it is used. It may be wrong "by the strict definition" but hey I don't think there's a hair out there you don't like to split.

Yikes! Your reasoning is that because many people commonly use this phrase incorrectly it is acceptable to do so yourself? Talk about aiming low.
Perhaps officials shouldn't call traveling or backcourt violations correctly because so many coaches, players, and fans have a misunderstanding of these rules. Let's just acquiesce and call it how they think it should be.

Here's another phrase for you "not suffer fools gladly."

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Rich, it's a good thing that your officiating skills are superior to your grammar. Since you decided to come into this with an attitude, why don't you join young deecee in taking a look at this link (and several others which can be easily found with an Internet search) and learn something yourself today: Grammar Girl : Begs the Question :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?

Furthermore, my comment in response to deecee was meant to contain humor as well as to possibly help him learn a language fact. Clearly, you missed the reference to The Princess Bride.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

If you only knew how absurd I feel having chosen to consult sources such as the Cambridge Idioms Dictionary and Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms. How silly of me to trust the expertise of one of the top 5 universities in the world over the musings of someone called grammer girl. Tsk, tsk.

And yes, I did miss the Princess Bride reference. Have seen the movie (it was funny from what I remember).

Now, can't we all just get along and get back to basketball.