Injured Player / Try

[bob jenkins]

From the FED 2010-2011 interps:

SITUATION 4: A1’s unsuccessful try for goal is rebounded by B1. As A1 returns to the floor after the missed try, he/she twists and then grabs the ankle and goes to the floor. B1 passes the ball to B2, who dribbles into the frontcourt and (a) attempts a try for goal which is not successful but is immediately rebounded by B4 and successfully scored; or (b) attempts a three-point try for goal which is successful. RULING: In both (a) and (b), an official stops play by sounding his/her whistle when the try for goal is released by the B player (player/team control ends on the release for a try). In (a), the successful try by B4 is not scored and play is resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (b), play is resumed with a throw-in to Team A anywhere along the end line. (5-8-2 Note)


How would you rule on that play in NCAA (W, if it matters)? References?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Thought there used to be an AR for this. Don't see one after a quick glance in the current case book.

I guess I'd lean toward saying the whistle should come after the try is released here, too, because what's to say B doesn't get the rebound and want to push back up court - we don't want to take away that scoring opportunity from B now that they have possession.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

...

How would you rule on that play in NCAA (W, if it matters)? References?

The same way I actually do it in HS games

5-11

The game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Art. 7. Suspends play after the ball is dead or controlled by the injured player's team or when the opponents complete a play after a player is injured.

a. A play shall be completed when a team withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position.


5-11-6 also provides for suspending play immediately to protect an injured player.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The same way I actually do it in HS games

5-11

The game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Art. 7. Suspends play after the ball is dead or controlled by the injured player's team or when the opponents complete a play after a player is injured.

a. A play shall be completed when a team withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position.


5-11-6 also provides for suspending play immediately to protect an injured player.

Note that the HS rule wording is a bit different:

5-8-2 Note "A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position."

Does that specific wording (or lack of it) matter?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that the HS rule wording is a bit different:

5-8-2 Note "A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position."

Does that specific wording (or lack of it) matter?

Apparently, b/c nothing in the NCAA books tells us to hit our whistle after a try is released. So I'm interpreting that a play involving a shot doesn't end until the try is good, rebounded, or a foul/violation occurs.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Apparently, b/c nothing in the NCAA books tells us to hit our whistle after a try is released. So I'm interpreting that a play involving a shot doesn't end until the try is good, rebounded, or a foul/violation occurs.

I'd offer that the try being released completes the play. Again, because B could get the rebound. If you let it go until the try was released by A, it seems unfair to take away a 2-pass fast break scoring opportunity by B if the injured A player is well out of the way of the impending fast break.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I'd offer that the try being released completes the play. Again, because B could get the rebound. If you let it go until the try was released by A, it seems unfair to take away a 2-pass fast break scoring opportunity by B if the injured A player is well out of the way of the impending fast break.

I think you have some As and Bs mixed up.

A1 is injured. B1 gets the rebound and goes to the other end. We all agree that (absent "serious" injury) the play continues so far. Now B1 releases an unsuccessful try (because I think we're all going to agree on what to do if the try is good).

Do you kill it as soon as the try is released (and go to the arrow)? As soon as someone gets the rebound (and give it back to that team)? As soon as A gets the rebound, but you'll leave it live if B gets the rebound? Something else?

FED is clear that the correct (by rule) choice is the first above.

NCAA, not so clear (to me).

And, yes, this play happened.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think you have some As and Bs mixed up.

A1 is injured. B1 gets the rebound and goes to the other end. We all agree that (absent "serious" injury) the play continues so far. Now B1 releases an unsuccessful try (because I think we're all going to agree on what to do if the try is good).

Do you kill it as soon as the try is released (and go to the arrow)? As soon as someone gets the rebound (and give it back to that team)? As soon as A gets the rebound, but you'll leave it live if B gets the rebound? Something else?

FED is clear that the correct (by rule) choice is the first above.

NCAA, not so clear (to me).

And, yes, this play happened.

You're correct, my letters/teams were backwards. I'll go back and edit my last post.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I'd offer that the try being released completes the play. Again, because B could get the rebound. If you let it go until the try was released by A, it seems unfair to take away a 2-pass fast break scoring opportunity by B if the injured A player is well out of the way of the impending fast break.

The NCAA doesn't define when the play is over in regards to a shot attempt. I am pretty confident how my supervisors want it handled, and that would not include killing the play after the try is released.

B getting the rebound before the play is killed is better for B than A getting the ball from the AP arrow.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The NCAA doesn't define when the play is over in regards to a shot attempt. I am pretty confident how my supervisors want it handled, and that would not include killing the play after the try is released.

B getting the rebound before the play is killed is better for B than A getting the ball from the AP arrow.

I see the logic there, too. Fair enough.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The NCAA doesn't define when the play is over in regards to a shot attempt. I am pretty confident how my supervisors want it handled, and that would not include killing the play after the try is released.

B getting the rebound before the play is killed is better for B than A getting the ball from the AP arrow.

What if the arrow is pointing to B?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What if the arrow is pointing to B?

I never kill the play when the try is released, so it don't consider that.

As I said originally, I do it the same in HS and college. And that way is:

Offense stops attacking--kill the play.

Shot goes up--wait for rebound, foul, violation, or successful try--kill the play.

[bob jenkins]

Maybe JetMetFan can ask his soon-to-be-rules editor (or whatever the title will be).

Note that I haven't taken a position on this.

[Camron Rust]

I just might wait until the ball is rebounded/made to decide if the player is injured or not.