Duke vs Miami double foul vid request (Clip Added)

Originally Posted by SoInZebra

Defender has legal guarding position and moves laterally to maintain that position - and contact comes on the torso.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have a PC foul as well. The defender does not move towards the defender, he moves laterally.

I don't see what you guys see at all. I see the defender moving toward the offensive player the whole time, even right up until contact occurs. I hope we are watching the same video.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I don't see what you guys see at all. I see the defender moving toward the offensive player the whole time, even right up until contact occurs. I hope we are watching the same video.

I also have the defender moving forward and contact from his left leg.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I also have the defender moving forward and contact from his left leg.

I do not have the defender moving forward, and I can't tell whether the contact is on the leg (block) or torso (charge).

Just doing my part to be sure we have all the possibilities covered.

At least we all agree that a "no-call" is not a valid choice.

[zm1283]

I didn't really want to be the first one to say it (Thanks guys), but I thought PC as well. I think it would look like PC in real time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I don't see what you guys see at all. I see the defender moving toward the offensive player the whole time, even right up until contact occurs. I hope we are watching the same video.

That is why it is called judgment. I do not go looking for reasons to call fouls on the defender. He moves laterally IMO. The side view shows this the best. The end line view was not the best. And one of the reasons I feel the Lead should not be the "default" person to make these calls.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not go looking for reasons to call fouls on the defender.

I do. It's called "refereeing the defense".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I do. It's called "refereeing the defense".

I know what it is called and I do not see the defender do anything but move laterally.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

For close plays like this one, I have found that something will be obvious that would indicate that the play is a block.

I didn't see anything that is obviously a block. I did see something that tends to a PC, although it wasn't a clear-cut case for that either. In the end, I've got a PC.

I think the L gets the first crack at this one. I agree with bob that a no-call is wrong, so if I'm the C, I'm stepping in only if the L doesn't. I definitely don't see this as a "crew call" that was mentioned in another thread.

[APG]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I do. It's called "refereeing the defense".

Ref the defense does not mean to look for reasons to call a foul on the defense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

Ref the defense does not mean to look for reasons to call a foul on the defense.

Exactly!!!!

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I do. It's called "refereeing the defense".

I'm guessing you really don't mean it this way.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He moves laterally IMO. The side view shows this the best. The end line view was not the best.

So the side view which the C has shows the lateral movement better than Lead's view from the baseline? If that is true why did C have a block and Lead have a charge? In this situation it is obvious that any side-to-side movement is best seen from Lead, whereas C has the best look at the defender moving forward or backward.

And yeah, the refereeing the defense thing was a joke, lighten up guys :P

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

So the side view which the C has shows the lateral movement better than Lead's view from the baseline? If that is true why did C have a block and Lead have a charge? In this situation it is obvious that any side-to-side movement is best seen from Lead, whereas C has the best look at the defender moving forward or backward.

And yeah, the refereeing the defense thing was a joke, lighten up guys :P

You need to ask the C personally why he called what he called. I just know when I see tape that official often call these plays incorrectly. Why is an individual thing. And often officials default to calling a block no matter what actually happens on the play.

If it is a block, what did the defender do wrong? I cannot think of anything that shows the defender was wrong in his movement.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If it is a block, what did the defender do wrong? I cannot think of anything that shows the defender was wrong in his movement.

Lost legal position and/or never had legal position to begin with.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Lost legal position and/or never had legal position to begin with.

Just like you (and others) and Jeff (and others) have different opinions seeing the same play, the C and L had different opinions. And, they only had once chance to watch it. It happens.

I've sat in meetings where official's supervisors have watched similar tapes and had diverging viewpoints.

As long as we know what to look for, we'll get more right. And, both sides have explained that they know what to look for.

There's no need to try to "win" this debate by convincing the other side. (directed generically)