Next Game's Official Interfering

[Treeguy]

Freshman boys. Less than a minute left in the game, home up by 30. V shooting free throws, hits the second, H1 passes to H2 who shoots at the wrong basket and makes, I believe done on purpose. V1 takes the ball, immediately throws it to V2 who scores. That did not look right, so I blow my whistle and had to think about what just happened. I realize that it should have been H's ball underneath after they scored, so I wave off the last basket and I go up to the table and let them know what I have. As I was explaining it, the official waiting for the JV comes up behind the table yelling NO NO NO saying V34 gets the basket. I don't think he realize I was just disallowing the last shot.

So my questions are;
1. Am I correct in disallowing the second shot? and
2. WTF?

[JetMetFan]

NFHS case play 10-1-8

Immediately following a goal or free throw by Team A, A1 inbounds the ball to A2 and A2 subsequently throws the ball through A's basket.

RULING: The following procedure has been adopted to handle this specific situation if it is recognized before the opponents gain control or before the next throw-in begins: (a) charge Team A with an unsporting technical foul; (b) assess a delay-of-game warning for interfering with the ball after a goal; (c) cancel the field goal; (d) cancel any common foul(s) committed and any non-flagrant foul against A2 in the act of shooting; and (e) put "consumed" time back on the clock.

COMMENT: If there is no doubt the throw-in was a result of confusion, the entire procedure would be followed except no unsporting team technical foul would be charged. A team technical would be assessed if the team had received a previous delay warning. This procedure shall not be used in any other throw-in situation in which an official administers the throw-in and a mistake allows the wrong team to inbound the ball. (4-47-3; 7-6-6; 10-1-5d)

[Nevadaref]

1. What JMF posted.
2. Tell the official for the next game that his help is not needed. If he persists, have him escorted out of the gym. That should fix his attitude.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

As I was explaining it, the official waiting for the JV comes up behind the table yelling NO NO NO saying V34 gets the basket. I don't think he realize I was just disallowing the last shot.

Who is V34? In any event, it sounds like you handled it just fine. Wipe that basket and move on. And to your trusty "helper", I would find a nice way to tell him that if you needed his help you would have asked. Especially since the game wasn't in the balance and any mistake could have been discussed post-game without much trouble.

[stick]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

Freshman boys. Less than a minute left in the game, home up by 30. V shooting free throws, hits the second, H1 passes to H2 who shoots at the wrong basket and makes, I believe done on purpose. V1 takes the ball, immediately throws it to V2 who scores. That did not look right, so I blow my whistle and had to think about what just happened. I realize that it should have been H's ball underneath after they scored, so I wave off the last basket and I go up to the table and let them know what I have. As I was explaining it, the official waiting for the JV comes up behind the table yelling NO NO NO saying V34 gets the basket. I don't think he realize I was just disallowing the last shot.

So my questions are;
1. Am I correct in disallowing the second shot? and
2. WTF?

I'd say you were correct if you deemed it to be intentional. You could call a T but it sounded like waving it off was enough. In a blowout game like that coaches usually put in their subs and they sometimes forget or don't know what basket their shooting at. If that's the case points to the V team. As for that JV official I'd have told him to MYOB.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

Freshman boys. Less than a minute left in the game, home up by 30. V shooting free throws, hits the second, H1 passes to H2 who shoots at the wrong basket and makes, I believe done on purpose. V1 takes the ball, immediately throws it to V2 who scores. That did not look right, so I blow my whistle and had to think about what just happened. I realize that it should have been H's ball underneath after they scored, so I wave off the last basket and I go up to the table and let them know what I have. As I was explaining it, the official waiting for the JV comes up behind the table yelling NO NO NO saying V34 gets the basket. I don't think he realize I was just disallowing the last shot.

So my questions are;
1. Am I correct in disallowing the second shot? and
2. WTF?

So White scores the second free throw. Blue takes the ball out and throws the ball through whites basket. At this point, you should have stopped the game and awarded the basket to white. Not sure why you would ever think Blue did this on purpose but moving on, Blue gets the throw in. However, that doesn't happen.

Instead, white takes it out and white scores. Now at this point is where you actually stopped the game and get everyone pointed the right way.

Am I reading this right? If so, sounds like complete confusion. This is exactly why we do lower level games, so we can see the crazy plays that we don't see at the higher levels, often.

[Rich]

I was watching the end of a LONG-running JV game a few weeks ago -- less than a minute left and I had the next game.

The officials *properly* called a flagrant foul on a late game fouling situation where the B player checked the A ball-handler into the scorer's table. I was pleasantly surprised that they did the right thing there.

Then after a LONG discussion, they awarded A 4 free throws.

Like flies to a moth, I had at least 3 people associated with the varsity teams come over to me (I was standing in the corner of the gym waiting with the two teams about to take the floor) and tell me I needed to fix that, that I needed to help them. One was an assistant varsity coach, I think, and I shook my head and said, "Can't do that. Sorry." Then I walked out of the gym to "stretch."

Would I have answered a question if the JV officials had asked me? Sure. Will I step into their game uninvited? No way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

...As I was explaining it, the official waiting for the JV comes up behind the table yelling NO NO NO saying V34 gets the basket. ...

Me: "Thank you for being a fan of freshman basketball."

[Treeguy]

V34 was the closest player to the first basket.

The home team only had 7 players who played the whole game, I believe they knew what they were doing. Could I have counted the first basket, give the H team a T, then shoot 2 and give the ball to back to the V?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

I believe they knew what they were doing. ?

The home team didn't do anything T'able. They inbounded when they were allowed to and threw the ball through the wrong basket, which they are allowed to do unless you think this rises to the level of "taunting."

The V team was confused, so don't penalize them for inbounding after they were awarded points.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Treeguy

V34 was the closest player to the first basket.

The home team only had 7 players who played the whole game, I believe they knew what they were doing. Could I have counted the first basket, give the H team a T, then shoot 2 and give the ball to back to the V?

Why would H get a T?

V makes a free throw. Proper thrower is H, actual thrower is H.

H scores at V's basket. Proper thrower is H, actual thrower is V.

V scores and play is stopped by the referee.

The only team who has improperly taken a throw-in is V. I don't see how you get to a T for H.

You should cancel the last shot by V2 only, issue V a delay of game warning, and add time if known. If you feel V should have been aware it was not their throw-in, issue a T.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

NFHS case play 10-1-8

Immediately following a goal or free throw by Team A, A1 inbounds the ball to A2 and A2 subsequently throws the ball through A's basket.

RULING: The following procedure has been adopted to handle this specific situation if it is recognized before the opponents gain control or before the next throw-in begins: (a) charge Team A with an unsporting technical foul; (b) assess a delay-of-game warning for interfering with the ball after a goal; (c) cancel the field goal; (d) cancel any common foul(s) committed and any non-flagrant foul against A2 in the act of shooting; and (e) put "consumed" time back on the clock.

COMMENT: If there is no doubt the throw-in was a result of confusion, the entire procedure would be followed except no unsporting team technical foul would be charged. A team technical would be assessed if the team had received a previous delay warning. This procedure shall not be used in any other throw-in situation in which an official administers the throw-in and a mistake allows the wrong team to inbound the ball. (4-47-3; 7-6-6; 10-1-5d)

This case situation does not apply to the OP, as this states Team A makes the free throw and inbounds the ball afterwards. But in the OP, Team A makes the free throw and Team B inbounds the ball.

That seems to be why there is confusion about giving Team A a technical foul.

My question is this...

Since this is not a correctable error, as only free throws attempted at the wrong basket are correctable, should all points be counted and go from the POI?

1. Team V gets the point for the free throw.
2. Team V is awarded points for Team H making a field goal in the wrong basket (it is not awarded to any player, but a note is made in the scorebook to explain the points scored).
3. Team V is awarded points for their made field goal, even though it should have been Team H's ball.
4. Play is stopped, and both teams are reminded which basket they're are shooting at, to make sure there is no more confusion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we can take away any points scored unless a correctable error is made and caught within the right time frame to make it right.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

This case situation does not apply to the OP, as this states Team A makes the free throw and inbounds the ball afterwards. But in the OP, Team A makes the free throw and Team B inbounds the ball.

That seems to be why there is confusion about giving Team A a technical foul.

My question is this...

Since this is not a correctable error, as only free throws attempted at the wrong basket are correctable, should all points be counted and go from the POI?

1. Team V gets the point for the free throw.
2. Team V is awarded points for Team H making a field goal in the wrong basket (it is not awarded to any player, but a note is made in the scorebook to explain the points scored).
3. Team V is awarded points for their made field goal, even though it should have been Team H's ball.
4. Play is stopped, and both teams are reminded which basket they're are shooting at, to make sure there is no more confusion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we can take away any points scored unless a correctable error is made and caught within the right time frame to make it right.

Team V didn't make a field goal. They threw a dead ball through the hoop. That's delay of game. That's the point of the case play. (As I read it).

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by youngump

Team V didn't make a field goal. They threw a dead ball through the hoop. That's delay of game. That's the point of the case play. (As I read it).

Maybe I'm not understanding the OP scenario, because it sounds like Team B was really screwed up. The way I read it Team V makes a free throw in Basket V, then Team H in bounds ball under Basket V and makes a field goal in Basket V. So they really shot and made a basket in the goal they just took the ball out underneath? The same basket Team V shot their free throw at?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Maybe I'm not understanding the OP scenario, because it sounds like Team B was really screwed up. The way I read it Team V makes a free throw in Basket V, then Team H in bounds ball under Basket V and makes a field goal in Basket V. So they really shot and made a basket in the goal they just took the ball out underneath? The same basket Team V shot their free throw at?

That's how I read it. The follow on from where you left it: having just scored a basket for V the ball belongs to H. At that point V grabbed the ball (delay of game warning) and threw the dead ball through the hoop. That one doesn't count.