The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 06:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
It says he can restore what he saw on the clock, sure. It doesn't say that he can restore only what he saw on the clock. I'm backing up what Scrapper says. He had a count in his head which started with the whistle. "one thou....."
That was definitely some time.
I would say that one enters dangerous territory when using a non-visual count as definite information to correct timing errors. I wouldn't do it. If I'm going to correct a timing error, I want my count to be visual so that it can be verified on video if questioned about it later.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 07:20am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Definite Knowledge ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I'm backing up what Scrapper says. He had a count in his head which started with the whistle. "one thou.....".
Did Scrapper1 actually say that ("count in his head")? If he did, then I also agree with him, but I may have missed him saying that. Without a mental count, or a visual on the clock, from the table, or from the officials, there is no definite knowledge. The NFHS doesn't allow us to guess.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 08:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB/PEI, Canada
Posts: 788
Around here we would put sometime back up. Our high school competitive season has home and homes between conference teams where in case of a split the point spreads matter. If Team A loses by 8 in Nov, but goes on the road and wins by 7 in Jan. They still lose the split when it comes down to records.

Several officials have gotten their knuckles wrapped for not being concerned whether about timing/scoring issues when the game was "in hand" and coaches/AD's filed complaints.

In regards to the OP. I'm putting something back on the clock after discussions with my partners and the table. The kid staring at his clock monitor had to have some info based on when the whistle went. After all consultation something is going back on the clock.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 09:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
In concept / theory, I agree with Scrapper / JAR. Put something back up.

But, according to the FED (and, I think, NCAAW) rules, if the official doesn't see the clock, or have a count going, then you can't put anything up.

Now, if your state association has said to do something different, then follow that advice, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 09:07am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
In concept / theory, I agree with Scrapper / JAR. Put something back up.

But, according to the FED (and, I think, NCAAW) rules, if the official doesn't see the clock, or have a count going, then you can't put anything up.

Now, if your state association has said to do something different, then follow that advice, of course.
Sometimes the letter of the rule has to be superseded by some common sense. If I know there's time left, I'm putting time up. Period.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 734
So I'm curious: HS refs, do you make it a habit to look up at the clock on a whistle in the last 10 seconds so that you will have definite knowledge if the operator doesn't stop the clock?
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 11:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 276
This situation is exactly why it is SO important for the crew to talk during the last minutes of the game anytime they have an opportunity during a deadball. We all know these things - trail has clock, signal each other at 1 min & 20 sec to go, etc. - but there is nothing wrong with getting together to be ready for all of the things that can happen at the end of a good game. You could even make an alternative plan by having lead and trail glancing up if there are two score boards and take time to talk to the table to ensure they are starting/stopping on our signal as you check fouls, TO's left, etc.

All that being said, I don't know that I would add time to the clock in the OP situation if I don't have any reliable knowledge of what to add. If the horn blew several seconds after the whistle (let's say approx. 5 or more) so I know with confidence there was SOME time on the clock I might be convinced by my partners in discussion to add 2 or 3 seconds based on "common sense" but I'm not guessing how much time to add when we start talking about tenths of a second unless I see the clock or was doing a count.

Also, the ultimate decision here lies on the shoulders of the R so I will go with whatever he decides. But when I'm the R, I would go with what I wrote above if I were ever in that situation.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 12:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
So I'm curious: HS refs, do you make it a habit to look up at the clock on a whistle in the last 10 seconds so that you will have definite knowledge if the operator doesn't stop the clock?
Yes, if I can.

I also count down the last xx seconds in my head, glancing at the clock when the situation permits to "reset" the clock.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 12:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Yes, if I can.

I also count down the last xx seconds in my head, glancing at the clock when the situation permits to "reset" the clock.
Same.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 02:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Sometimes the letter of the rule has to be superseded by some common sense. If I know there's time left, I'm putting time up. Period.
Very well said, I agree 1000000%

To all who are saying you can't put time back on, lets say it's a closer game, 2 or 3 points, and the foul happens with 5ish seconds left. If time is never stopped, and no one notices it, and the horn goes off when you are reporting your foul, what would you do? Would you really not put any time back up there?? And yes, I realize the correct answer here is to never get to this point, because you should look at the clock in this situation, as I'm sure most of us probably do, but if it somehow gets missed, then what?
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 02:19pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
Very well said, I agree 1000000%

To all who are saying you can't put time back on, lets say it's a closer game, 2 or 3 points, and the foul happens with 5ish seconds left. If time is never stopped, and no one notices it, and the horn goes off when you are reporting your foul, what would you do? Would you really not put any time back up there?? And yes, I realize the correct answer here is to never get to this point, because you should look at the clock in this situation, as I'm sure most of us probably do, but if it somehow gets missed, then what?

Yes, I had a count. Next question.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 02:48pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
So I'm curious: HS refs, do you make it a habit to look up at the clock on a whistle in the last 10 seconds so that you will have definite knowledge if the operator doesn't stop the clock?
I make it a habit to look at the clock on every whistle....especially if I'm the off official.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 20, 2014, 04:13pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Works For Me ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Yes, I had a count. Next question.
Good answer.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Really late kids rec game Mark Padgett Basketball 1 Sat Feb 04, 2012 07:49am
When is it too late to turnback a game ??????? Multiple Sports Basketball 47 Mon Dec 13, 2010 01:00pm
Foul late in the game Clark Kent Basketball 29 Tue Jan 19, 2010 04:16pm
Late Game Fouling Spence Basketball 64 Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:56am
Are your game's running Late? Alaska Ref Basketball 9 Tue Jan 09, 2001 01:52pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1