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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:20am
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Pic your nit . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Why not discuss both rules and coverages during the last timeout? It wouldn't take more than a few seconds anyway:

"Ok, remember now, less than 0.3 on the clock, only a tap can score. OPPOSITE_TABLE_OFFICIAL_NAME has clock, keep focus on your primary, and as soon as this is over, let's GTFO through that door".

Can't take more than 10 seconds to get through all of that.
Is it "less than .3 seconds" or is it ".3 seconds or less"?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:33am
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Nit found

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Is it "less than .3 seconds" or is it ".3 seconds or less"?
In the OP, it is immaterial. Article clearly states there was .2 seconds.

For the record, the ruling speaks to ".3 seconds or less".
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
I disagree, reiteration of help on threes to make sure it is a three, release of the ball versus horn, and most importantly if the shot is not going to be counted start waving it off immediately, not after the horn, and after its gone in. But since these guys didn't know that, ya in this case lets cover the .3 seconds rule.
Really? You roll your eyes at covering the .3 seconds rule when there's less than .3 second... yet you advocate discussing help on threes when a 3 point shot is not a possibility?

You should also cover jump ball mechanics at the same time - they will be of equal value to you in this situation.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
My Association. Long discussion at the Meeting the other night. In this day and age of videos and social media, there is no hiding. We blew it. We are moving on as best we can and going forward.
Step one, fire the officials working the game.
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 11:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Step one, fire the officials working the game.
Yep, their entire careers should end because of a single mistake.
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Yep, their entire careers should end because of a single mistake.
One egregious mistake. Further, I did not say that their "careers" should end. They can go to camps next summer, prove themselves competent again, reapply, and start working their way back up from the bottom of the ladder.

Around here, these three guys would have a difficult time finding an assignment chair willing to have them work varsity basketball games for this mistake. In the college conferences I work, I can say for sure they would be removed, probably permanently, from staff for this mistake.

When I first started officiating, there was a fairly well established varsity official who made an egregious rule mistake in a game and he never worked another varsity game. Non-shooting foul called against V1. H is not in the bonus and foul by V1 is sixth team foul. V coach complains about the call and gets technical. H coach convinces referee on the game that they should get to shoot the 1 and 1 as well as 2 free throws for the T because V team now has 7 team fouls. The referee, ignoring the advice of his two partners, decided that the H coach is correct and allows H to shoot 4 free throws. The referee never worked another HS varsity game.
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Step one, fire the officials working the game.
I'm sure they're glad they don't work for you on their day jobs......
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
One egregious mistake. Further, I did not say that their "careers" should end. They can go to camps next summer, prove themselves competent again, reapply, and start working their way back up from the bottom of the ladder.

Around here, these three guys would have a difficult time finding an assignment chair willing to have them work varsity basketball games for this mistake. In the college conferences I work, I can say for sure they would be removed, probably permanently, from staff for this mistake.

When I first started officiating, there was a fairly well established varsity official who made an egregious rule mistake in a game and he never worked another varsity game. Non-shooting foul called against V1. H is not in the bonus and foul by V1 is sixth team foul. V coach complains about the call and gets technical. H coach convinces referee on the game that they should get to shoot the 1 and 1 as well as 2 free throws for the T because V team now has 7 team fouls. The referee, ignoring the advice of his two partners, decided that the H coach is correct and allows H to shoot 4 free throws. The referee never worked another HS varsity game.
I've seen an official allow a team to score the winning basket with 6 men on the court and go on to be an alternate at the Final Four.

The Referee Death Penalty must be a regional thing.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Why not discuss both rules and coverages during the last timeout? It wouldn't take more than a few seconds anyway:

"Ok, remember now, less than 0.3 on the clock, only a tap can score. OPPOSITE_TABLE_OFFICIAL_NAME has clock, keep focus on your primary, and as soon as this is over, let's GTFO through that door".

Can't take more than 10 seconds to get through all of that.
Exactly...and guess what, they aren't going to start the game without you. Take the dime to discuss it ALL and get it right.
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
One egregious mistake. Further, I did not say that their "careers" should end. They can go to camps next summer, prove themselves competent again, reapply, and start working their way back up from the bottom of the ladder.

Around here, these three guys would have a difficult time finding an assignment chair willing to have them work varsity basketball games for this mistake. In the college conferences I work, I can say for sure they would be removed, probably permanently, from staff for this mistake.

When I first started officiating, there was a fairly well established varsity official who made an egregious rule mistake in a game and he never worked another varsity game. Non-shooting foul called against V1. H is not in the bonus and foul by V1 is sixth team foul. V coach complains about the call and gets technical. H coach convinces referee on the game that they should get to shoot the 1 and 1 as well as 2 free throws for the T because V team now has 7 team fouls. The referee, ignoring the advice of his two partners, decided that the H coach is correct and allows H to shoot 4 free throws. The referee never worked another HS varsity game.
You're kidding yourself if you think that isn't ending their careers. But, if you can find the referee who has never made a rules mistake, he can be the one to fire them. Go ahead; I'll wait.
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 01:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
You're kidding yourself if you think that isn't ending their careers. But, if you can find the referee who has never made a rules mistake, he can be the one to fire them. Go ahead; I'll wait.
Amen. I was telling a buddy of mine the other day that was ALL over a ref from his kid's game. I said look man, please remember that that dude probably worked a 10 hour day today, reorganized his schedule to leave early from work, drove who knows how far one way and spent time away from his family for what reason? So that your kid can chase his dream of playing basketball in highschool. Lay off him and remember that if he decided he has heard enough from parents like you yoru kids dreams will go out the same door the offical quits through.
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Yep, their entire careers should end because of a single mistake.
Yep.

Sort of like having a "do over" in an NCAA men's game a few seasons back.

Oh wait...those guys are all 3 still working. One has worked the NCAA tournament the last two seasons after making that screw-up.

Anyone who would say that officials should be fired for making a mistake is either incredibly arrogant or incredibly dumb. Or maybe both?
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 01:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Really? You roll your eyes at covering the .3 seconds rule when there's less than .3 second... yet you advocate discussing help on threes when a 3 point shot is not a possibility?
Why isn't a 3 possible? You don't have to catch and shoot to get a 3....it could be tapped from there too making all of his points possible. It is unlikely to go in on such a tap, but it could. In reality, all of those things should be covered, most of all, the 0.3 situation.
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
My Association. Long discussion at the Meeting the other night. In this day and age of videos and social media, there is no hiding. We blew it. We are moving on as best we can and going forward.
Yep. Used as a teaching moment for the entire association. Lots of things before and immediately after that could have been done. Unfortunately, the crew had left the visual confines when they realized the mistake and it was too late.
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 17, 2014, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
So don't discuss the pertinent rule, but discuss a mechanic a varsity crew should already know.

Yeah, great logical progression.
Can't tell you how many times I've had games where no matter how many times we discuss last second shot and coverage, the wrong official is scoring, waving off, blowing the whistle while sometimes (either the correct official is either asleep at the wheel or about to do his duty).

Heck, I've had a 3 man game where with less than 3 seconds to go in a full court situation, and Im the trail (on the other side of the court) administering an in-bounds and somehow the team is able to get off a layup (albeit right after the buzzer) when they were down by 2 and I have to come in and wave the shot off, because both my partners were just standing there after the horn sounded. So yes, I've had the privileged, of being in way to many situations where this needs to be covered.
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