Missouri State/Wichita State video requests

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You can't have it both ways. Your criteria are self-contradictory. You're basically saying he doesn't have to get the feet down to maintain LGP but he has to get the feet down to maintain LGP (which is getting to the spot first).

Getting to the spot first after already having LGP has nothing to do with the feet. It is about the space...where the torso's meet. Defender clearly got that first.

Calling it the way you're suggesting is just screwing defenders....that makes playing good defense an impossible task.

I've called plenty of fouls against the offense, so don't worry... I'm not screwing defenders or making playing good defense an impossible task.

Having both feet down at the spot of contact is the way I'm defining getting to that spot first. How would you define getting to a spot first, which would satisfy the first part of legally guarding a player?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I've called plenty of fouls against the offense, so don't worry... I'm not screwing defenders or making playing good defense an impossible task.

Having both feet down at the spot of contact is the way I'm defining getting to that spot first. How would you define getting to a spot first, which would satisfy the first part of legally guarding a player?

Initial LGP, yes a player has to have both feet on the floor and facing the offensive player, however, keeping both feet on the floor is not a requirement for maintaining LGP. The defense may move laterally, or obliquely.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Initial LGP, yes a player has to have both feet on the floor and facing the offensive player, however, keeping both feet on the floor is not a requirement for maintaining LGP. The defense may move laterally, or obliquely.

This is what I'm hearing...

Once the defender has gained initial LGP the dribbler has to go around the defender without any contact. Provided that the defender never makes a move towards the dribbler.

So unless it's clear that the dribbler gets to a spot first, and is then "run into" by the defender, we have a PC foul.

[just another ref]

Too much emphasis on getting to the spot first. If both players are moving, they get to the point of contact at the same time. Then the issue is whether LGP was established followed by the direction of the players movement relative to each other.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Too much emphasis on getting to the spot first. If both players are moving, they get to the point of contact at the same time. Then the issue is whether LGP was established followed by the direction of the players movement relative to each other.

Thank you for putting it in simple terms. Call me an idiot if you want, but I feel the thing I was mainly referring to (getting to the spot first) was not being addressed. People were instead bringing up other parts of the rule on legally guarding a dribbler (gaining initial LGP).

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I feel the thing I was mainly referring to (getting to the spot first) was not being addressed. People were instead bringing up other parts of the rule on legally guarding a dribbler (gaining initial LGP).

Does the rule include the word "spot"?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Does the rule include the word "spot"?

Yep...

"Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court, provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent." - Section 23 ART. 1

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I've called plenty of fouls against the offense, so don't worry... I'm not screwing defenders or making playing good defense an impossible task.

Having both feet down at the spot of contact is the way I'm defining getting to that spot first. How would you define getting to a spot first, which would satisfy the first part of legally guarding a player?

Freeze everything just before contact.
1. Did the defender do anything illegal to get into that position (feet are irrelevant)? No.
2. Did the defender have LGP (feet were relevant at the point it was obtained). Yes....for a long time.
3. Was the defender (the torso) in the path of the opponent? Yes....that is being in the spot.
4. Was the defender moving toward the opponent? No.
5. Unfreeze....contact.
Charge.

You're adding your own requirement to getting to the spot that isn't supported in the rules...and making it a lot harder to make the call since you're making yourself have to split hairs with every little twitch the defender makes in order to decide block/charge....and the error will always penalize the defense.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I've called plenty of fouls against the offense, so don't worry... I'm not screwing defenders or making playing good defense an impossible task.

Having both feet down at the spot of contact is the way I'm defining getting to that spot first. How would you define getting to a spot first, which would satisfy the first part of legally guarding a player?

Actually, you are putting defenders at a disadvantage if you require them to have "both feet down at the spot of contact." That's not part of the rule.

Let's break this down.

Here's a picture of the moment the defender obtained LGP.



At this moment the defender is guarding the ballhandler/dribbler. From that point on, the defender can move any direction he wants as long as he's not moving forward into the ballhandler/dribbler when/if contact takes place.

Now, here's a picture of the moment right before contact.



I'm not going to post frame-by-frame shots but you said yourself the defender was moving laterally at the moment of contact. Given the defender was moving laterally after obtaining - and never losing - LGP and the ballhandler/dribbler did not get head and shoulders around the defender, what - by rule - was the defender doing wrong at the time of contact? Keep in mind, the defender maintained LGP through the entire play meaning he's not required to have either or both feet on the floor when contact takes place to remain legal.

[jeremy341a]

1. Charge
2. No Call
3. Charge
4. Black Ball