Missouri State/Wichita State video requests

[zm1283]

For full disclosure, I was at the game and was cheering for Missouri State. I wanted to see video of these because I thought one official really struggled in the second half of the game.

Someone posted on Facebook that the last 7 minutes of clock time took almost 40 minutes in real time. Another reason I don't like all of the monitor reviews.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Not saying you're wrong.. not at all. But I'm curious as to your explanation as to why it's a charging call in play #1.

The defender has LGP, back away and the dribble goes into him and seems to push off. All the defender did was prepare for the contact. His arm was there to if anything protect his midsection. I do not see how the official put this on the defender? That was the easiest call IMO. There was not issue with "upward motion" or airborne shooter at play. That was a PC foul last year too.

Then again, we had the benefit of tape.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The defender has LGP, back away and the dribble goes into him and seems to push off. All the defender did was prepare for the contact. His arm was there to if anything protect his midsection. I do not see how the official put this on the defender? That was the easiest call IMO. There was not issue with "upward motion" or airborne shooter at play. That was a PC foul last year too.

Then again, we had the benefit of tape.

Peace

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

Umm, close. Here are the first three requirements for establishing LGP on someone with the ball:

a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a legal guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.

And here is one of the criteria for maintaining LGP...

(the guard) may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position provided such a move is not toward the opponent when contact occurs;

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

Incorrect. You may want to review the definitions of LGP. Both feet down and being at the spot don't have to be at the same time. The defender had LGP with both feet down, in the path, and facing the dribbler when they were 10 feet apart. Maintaining LGP does not have any requirement on the feet...only that the defender not be moving toward the opponent at the time of contact....he was moving away.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see three missed block calls. All of those plays were PC fouls IMO. And they were not that hard IMO either.

As you said in another thread - in terms of the two shooting fouls, the NCAA created this mess. Let them deal with it.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Umm, close. Here are the first three requirements for establishing LGP on someone with the ball:

a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a legal guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.

And here is one of the criteria for maintaining LGP...

(the guard) may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position provided such a move is not toward the opponent when contact occurs;

Section 23 Art. 1 of the 2013-2014 NFHS Rule Book says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting the opponent". This part comes before the guidelines you quote.

IMO, the defender in Play #1 does not get to the spot first and before contact is made. He has to have both feet on the playing court at the spot of the foul, and be the first at the spot, to satisfy both parts of legally guarding an opponent plus obtaining legal guarding position.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Incorrect. You may want to review the definitions of LGP. Both feet down and being at the spot don't have to be at the same time. The defender had LGP with both feet down, in the path, and facing the dribbler when they were 10 feet apart. Maintaining LGP does not have any requirement on the feet...only that the defender not be moving toward the opponent at the time of contact....he was moving away.

You're completely ignoring the part that says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent". The defender in this case does not satisfy that part, so whether or not he had LGP (which is discussed after that quote) doesn't matter.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Section 23 Art. 1 of the 2013-2014 NFHS Rule Book says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting the opponent". This part comes before the guidelines you quote.

IMO, the defender in Play #1 does not get to the spot first and before contact is made. He has to have both feet on the playing court at the spot of the foul, and be the first at the spot, to satisfy both parts of legally guarding an opponent plus obtaining legal guarding position.

Not if he has already established LGP.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Section 23 Art. 1 of the 2013-2014 NFHS Rule Book says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting the opponent". This part comes before the guidelines you quote.

IMO, the defender in Play #1 does not get to the spot first and before contact is made. He has to have both feet on the playing court at the spot of the foul, and be the first at the spot, to satisfy both parts of legally guarding an opponent plus obtaining legal guarding position.

How did the defender illegally contact the opponent? He does not have to have both feet on the floor to maintain LGP which, at that point, is all he's doing since he'd already obtained LGP when the offensive player was 10-15 feet away from him and he's moving laterally, which is legal given he's maintaining LGP.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Not if he has already established LGP.

LGP doesn't matter. I'll write it again...

"Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets their first without illegally contacting the opponent." - Page 33, Section 23 ART. 1 of the 2013-2014 NFHS Basketball Rules book

Whether or not you think the defender had LGP is moot, as the dribbler has the right to that spot too. The defender did NOT get their first.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

How did the defender illegally contact the opponent? He does not have to have both feet on the floor to maintain LGP which, at that point, is all he's doing since he'd already obtained LGP when the offensive player was 10-15 feet away from him and he's moving laterally, which is legal given he's maintaining LGP.

No, he doesn't have to have both feet on the court to "maintain" LGP. I never said he did. I said he had to have both feet on the court, at the point of contact, in order for me to deem him there first and call a PC foul.

Who got to that spot first absolutely matters.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

No, he doesn't have to have both feet on the court to "maintain" LGP. I never said he did. I said he had to have both feet on the court, at the point of contact, in order for me to deem him there first and call a PC foul.

Who got to that spot first absolutely matters.

This is not accurate.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This is not accurate.

Then how do you define a player getting to a spot first?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

LGP doesn't matter. I'll write it again...

"Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets their first without illegally contacting the opponent." - Page 33, Section 23 ART. 1 of the 2013-2014 NFHS Basketball Rules book

Whether or not you think the defender had LGP is moot, as the dribbler has the right to that spot too. The defender did NOT get their first.

LGP does matter. He was in a LGP and did get to the spot prior to the offense. I think the first play could have been a play on, but in my opinion if you have a call, I would have a PC. One thing I don't see is the offensive player getting past the shoulders of the defense.