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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:04am
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When change arrow on timeout

A jump ball is called, arrow points to team A, the referee hands the ball to A1 who cannot find an open teammate to pass the ball to so he calls a timeout. My thinking is that this ends the alternating possession throw-in, that has started, and the possession arrow should be switched as soon as the timeout is granted.

Am I correct or should the arrow be switched after the timeout and the ball is inbounded?
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Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainbrian View Post
A jump ball is called, arrow points to team A, the referee hands the ball to A1 who cannot find an open teammate to pass the ball to so he calls a timeout. My thinking is that this ends the alternating possession throw-in, that has started, and the possession arrow should be switched as soon as the timeout is granted.

Am I correct or should the arrow be switched after the timeout and the ball is inbounded?
You need to look up the definition of a throw-in. When does it start and end? The timeout doesn't change this.
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Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:17am
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The arrow is switched because 1 of 2 possibilities.

A TO being granted isn't one of them.
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Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:14pm
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Additionally, this is kind of a small thing, but it bugs me for some reason. We don't call jump balls. There is typically only one jump ball in the game. When the ball is tied up between opponents, we stop play due to the "held ball".
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Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 12:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainbrian View Post
A jump ball is called, arrow points to team A, the referee hands the ball to A1 who cannot find an open teammate to pass the ball to so he calls a timeout. My thinking is that this ends the alternating possession throw-in, that has started, and the possession arrow should be switched as soon as the timeout is granted.

Am I correct or should the arrow be switched after the timeout and the ball is inbounded?
You are not correct. And it makes me wonder, where did you get the notion that the AP throw-in ends with a time-out.

Under that logic, I would wonder if you would force a team to take a designated spot throw-in after a made basket, if they called a time-out after the ball was at their disposal.

This is why I'm a rule book guy. I always go to the rule book first, then if I don't understand the rule or the case play, I'll ask for guidance from other officials. There are just way too many officials out that there who pass along bad information for me to ever just blindly trust what others say without looking it up myself.

Just yesterday I had a very good friend of mine try to tell me you don't get 2 shots on a made basket/intentional foul combination. At least he pulled out the book to look it up during our discussion. I lot of officials don't even bother doing that.
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Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:08pm
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As a practical matter, the scorer probably switched the arrow when the ball was handed for the throw-in, so you proabably do have to "switch" it at the TO (and then switch it again after the TO when the throw-in is completed). That's probably nto what was meant, though.

(And, good practice to remind the scorer after the TO that it's still an AP throw-in and to switch the arrow.)
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Old Fri Dec 27, 2013, 04:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Additionally, this is kind of a small thing, but it bugs me for some reason. We don't call jump balls. When the ball is tied up between opponents, we stop play due to the "held ball".
I only have a problem with officials calling this a jump ball, instead of a held ball, on Forums like this. Back when they switched to the alternating possession arrow instead of "real" jump balls, they didn't change the signal. The new alternating possession arrow signal after a held ball is that same as the old jump ball signal after a held ball, so I still say, "Jump ball", as I give the thumbs up signal. I know that it's technically wrong, but I say it for old times' sake.

Plus, when the ball is tied up between opponents during the opening jump ball before the possession arrow is set, we really do have a jump ball (for a held ball). I had one the other night. Coach was right behind me (I was the umpire), and told me that we don't jump again but we go to the arrow. I told him that there was no arrow and to look at the table for one (I know this sounds really sarcastic, but it really didn't sound that sarcastic if you were there). Once he figured out that there was no arrow, he told me that the two original jumpers should jump again, not his little guard against the opponent's tall forward. Stupid monkey coaches.

Maybe we should come up with a new held ball signal, one with some kind of pointing in the signal. How about the "Walk Like An Egyptian" pointing signal?

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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 04:29pm.
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Old Sat Dec 28, 2013, 12:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Additionally, this is kind of a small thing, but it bugs me for some reason. We don't call jump balls. There is typically only one jump ball in the game. When the ball is tied up between opponents, we stop play due to the "held ball".

+100

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Old Sat Dec 28, 2013, 01:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Coach was right behind me (I was the umpire), and told me that we don't jump again but we go to the arrow. I told him that there was no arrow and to look at the table for one (I know this sounds really sarcastic, but it really didn't sound that sarcastic if you were there). Once he figured out that there was no arrow, he told me that the two original jumpers should jump again, not his little guard against the opponent's tall forward. Stupid monkey coaches.
I give him credit for persistence. Keep making up enough rules and eventually he may find one that actually exists.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 06:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Just yesterday I had a very good friend of mine try to tell me you don't get 2 shots on a made basket/intentional foul combination.
...funny you would mention that...I called two of these "made basket/intentional foul" combinations last week-end...in the same game, back to back.

2 of the 3 officials knew how to administer it...and where to administer the throw in.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Coach... told me that we don't jump again but we go to the arrow.
..."would you like to bet a soda on that Coach?"
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