Contacts and shoe laces

[Sharpshooternes]

Had both happen in back to back games with the same teams (soph. then JV). Had a player who had a displaced contact just before shooting FTs. She requested a TO to correct the situation and had it fixed easily within 30 seconds. My question is, how much time do they have to correct the situation on an uncharged timeout. Does it ever become a charged TO?

In the second game, thrower in-er A1 has the ball at their disposal. B1 requests to stop play so she can tie her shoe. I deny the request and allow play to continue. Varsity coach in the end of the bench is chiding me that "it's a liability for injury." "How come all the other officials stop play?" My reply was because they don't know the rules.

At the next dead ball, coach says, "Go ahead and tie your shoe." Partner sounds his whistle, puts his hand in the air and stands over her and politely watches as she ties her shoe. Coach sarcastically says "thank you!!!!!" In mind I am saying to my partner, "thanks for throwing me under the bus." We discussed it after and he claims he didn't hear any of the exchange beforehand even thought thee were only 50 people in the gym.

I am all for delaying putting the ball into play for a couple seconds for someone to tie their shoe but I wasn't about to blow it dead for the defensive team. Any other thoughts on how to handle this situation?

[Adam]

For a shoe lace, I'll delay a throw-in once, but I'm not stopping play.

As for the liability line, I wouldn't reply to the coach on the end of the bench. If he continued, I'd remind the HC that he needs to reign his bench in a bit. As for his sarcastic thank you, not much you should do at that point. If the HC mentions it as a safety issue, I wouldn't say anything either (mainly because play is ongoing here).

I can tell you most varsity (and JV) coaches know better, at least around here. If I stopped a game for a shoe lace, I'd be getting some "coaching" from my assigner the next day most likely.

I would have done it the same way.

[bob jenkins]

I agree with you on the shoelaces -- delay putting it in play, but once it's in play then play continues.

[Indianaref]

Also agree on laces. As far as the contact lens issue...don't know the reference, I believe no time out is charged regardless of the amount of time it takes. Hopefully, after some delay, if issue not corrected someone with reason will get a sub in.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Also agree on laces. As far as the contact lens issue...don't know the reference, I believe no time out is charged regardless of the amount of time it takes. Hopefully, after some delay, if issue not corrected someone with reason will get a sub in.

5-11
ART. 4

Only one 60-second time-out is charged (or one 30-second time-out, if that is the only type of time-out remaining) in 5-8-4 regardless of the amount of time consumed when no correction is made.

EXCEPTION: No time-out is charged:

a. If, in 5-8-3, the player's request results from displaced eyeglasses or lens.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

5-11
ART. 4

Only one 60-second time-out is charged (or one 30-second time-out, if that is the only type of time-out remaining) in 5-8-4 regardless of the amount of time consumed when no correction is made.

EXCEPTION: No time-out is charged:

a. If, in 5-8-3, the player's request results from displaced eyeglasses or lens.

Thanks PG, I found it after I posted and then saw your post.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

...
At the next dead ball, coach says, "Go ahead and tie your shoe." Partner sounds his whistle, puts his hand in the air and stands over her and politely watches as she ties her shoe. Coach sarcastically says "thank you!!!!!" In mind I am saying to my partner, "thanks for throwing me under the bus." .....

What did your partner do wrong? The ball was dead.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What did your partner do wrong? The ball was dead.

He came over and made a big deal about sounding the whistle and keeping his hand up while standing over the player while she tied her shoe. Had it been me and this exchange had happened, I would have just stood at the spot with the ball and waited for her to tie it. It made me look rally bad because I wouldn't stop play and then my partner does so the very next dead ball. Part of our job as a crew is to make each other look good. This was exactly the opposite.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

He came over and made a big deal about sounding the whistle and keeping his hand up while standing over the player while she tied her shoe. Had it been me and this exchange had happened, I would have just stood at the spot with the ball and waited for her to tie it. It made me look rally bad because I wouldn't stop play and then my partner does so the very next dead ball. Part of our job as a crew is to make each other look good. This was exactly the opposite.

Sometimes the best way to learn is on the job.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

He came over and made a big deal about sounding the whistle and keeping his hand up while standing over the player while she tied her shoe. Had it been me and this exchange had happened, I would have just stood at the spot with the ball and waited for her to tie it. It made me look rally bad because I wouldn't stop play and then my partner does so the very next dead ball. Part of our job as a crew is to make each other look good. This was exactly the opposite.

Not the same situation. He was correct in holding up play. You were correct in not holding up play. Why should he be wrong just to make you look good? I'm guessing you were sensitive about it all with what just happened and the coaches incorrect interpretation of the events and may be reading more into his actions than were there.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not the same situation. He was correct in holding up play. You were correct in not holding up play. Why should he be wrong just to make you look good? I'm guessing you were sensitive about it all with what just happened and the coaches incorrect interpretation of the events and may be reading more into his actions than were there.

It's possible the partner showed him up, but not likely. I don't even blow the whistle, though, when I do it; I just hold my hand up if I'm not administering the throw in. I don't even do that much if it's my throw in.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

As far as the contact lens issue...

Anybody remember when some officials used to ask the captains if anyone on their team was wearing contact lenses? Many of these officials also told the captains that it was the blue line all the way around.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

What we are discussing with regard to shoe laces is something we have discussed before, but for the sake of of newer members of the Forum I have posted my post (Post #12) from a thread from the 2000-01 season: Equipment problem


Prior to the 1963-64 season (I am not kidding) the rules for boys'/girls' high school and men's college allowed the game officials to stop the game or delay the ball becoming alive so that a player could tie a shoe lace that had come untied.

Starting with the 1963-64 season the Rules Committtee (The National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada which wrote the rules for boys'/girls' H.S. and men's college.) deleted a sentence in the rules that allowed the game officials to stop the game or delay the ball becoming alive so that a player could tie a shoe lace the had come untied. The change was covered in the front of the rule book as an editorial change.

Staring with the 1978-79 season that the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (NBCUSC) morphed into the NFHS and NCAA Men's Rules Committees. When these two committees were formed all Case Book plays and Rulings of the NBCUSC were kept. These Case Book plays and Rulings are still in effect unless they have been superceded by a rule change or new case book play ruling.

The decision of 1963-64 has never been changed and therefore is still in effect. The problem is that the change was an Editorial Change and unless one has ever read a 1963-64 rule book or have discussed rules with some oldtimers (and I have done both and am also a bald old geezer) one would never know that there is a ruling in place to cover this situation. That is why many officials will stop the game to let the player tie his/her shoe and use safety as an excuse. It is the player who is responsible to make sure that his/her shoes are properly tied.

I, myself, am more lenient during jr. H.S. games but for H.S. freshmen and above I go by what the Rules Committee wants and that was spelled out in the 1963-64 Rules Book. That means it is a player's responsibility to keep his/her shoes tied and suffer the consequences if it comes untied.

MTD, Sr.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I deny the request and allow play to continue. Varsity coach in the end of the bench is chiding me that "it's a liability for injury." "How come all the other officials stop play?" My reply was because they don't know the rules.

You were talking about your partner throwing you under the bus, and maybe he/she did, I don't know exactly the posture or body language that they displayed while holding up play. But regardless, I think your comment of "Because they don't know the rules," is completely unneccessary. That's the type of comment that throws all other officials under the bus. A quick statement or comment about not while the ball is live or whatever might be ok, but certainly not a comment that makes other referees look bad!! That's why I think its pretty hypocritical of you to be upset over your partner's actions at the next dead ball.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by frezer11

You were talking about your partner throwing you under the bus, and maybe he/she did, I don't know exactly the posture or body language that they displayed while holding up play. But regardless, I think your comment of "Because they don't know the rules," is completely unneccessary. That's the type of comment that throws all other officials under the bus. A quick statement or comment about not while the ball is live or whatever might be ok, but certainly not a comment that makes other referees look bad!! That's why I think its pretty hypocritical of you to be upset over your partner's actions at the next dead ball.

Very valid point and I agree that my comment was not appropriate. I did approach the coach at half time to explain why I didn't stop play (the ball was live). he was OK with it then.